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Main Discussion > Personal injury & 401 gyro
 
 
MJWS
Key Veteran
Location: Airdrie, AB - Canada

I'm glad to hear you're doing ok. Accidents involving people and heli's are always scary. Especially with the recent deaths.

Not all of us have the luxury of bringing someone out to the field every time we want to fly. I wouldn't fly without my cell handy. But obviously nothing is as good as a human.

There is no way I can believe that people around here never fly alone. Should a complete rookie fly alone. No way. If you don't have throttle hold, your kill switch, or failsafes set up.... why are you flying alone?

Can a reasonably competent pilot fly safely alone. Of course they can. Should they take precautions. Absolutely. Even the hovering only crowd can fly a safe distance from themselves. If you're really paranoid; stand behind the fence.

If you have a mechanical failure, normally the heli will fly itself into the ground. It's the spectators and your fellow fliers who are in danger. The pilot is the only one with a clue what the ship is doing. You have an obligation to hit hold, kill the engine, and fly that thing into the ground if it is a danger. If you're going to duck and cover, or run... I sure as hell don't want to be at the field with you. Stick it in the ground if you don't have control! These things are not that hard to AUGER IN.

Pieter was alone and put no one in danger except himself. I know for a fact I'd be thankful that my kids weren't there, my wife was safe, I don't even want it too close to the car.

I apologize if I sound a little wound up on this issue. Had a guy miss me by inches with a plank last weekend. Didn't shout or anything... just let it go out of control. It's not _MY_ heli that scares me... it is flown at a safe distance. I had a mechanical on the weekend too... my bird went in 100 yards away with absolutely no risk to my life, property, or anyone elses. That's how it should be.

Regards,

Mike
04-03-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Chavalo
Senior Heliman
Location: Mexico City

USE YOUR HOLD SWITCH!!!!!!!! When tail fails you have no chance of saving your bird EXEPT if you hit the hold switch...this way if it hits you, you don't have accelerating rotor blades, just blades with some momentum and/or if you're high enough, you'll be able to auto it!
04-03-2004 Over year old.
 
 
PietervA
Veteran
Location: New Zealand

Hi guys

Thanks for your support ............. very much appreciated.

In calm retrospection, so many things could have been done differently .............. including hitting the hold switch. I've replayed the incident many times over in my mind, and am still aghast at how quickly it all happened. I'm also extremely relieved that in the final moments I crouched to minimise the personal damage, and that I was running a low headspeed.

This morning I returned to the airfield with my son (tva) and our R30, and started to regain my nerve.

This remains a sobering experience for us.

Regards
Pieter
04-03-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Temjin
Senior Heliman
Location: Walnut CA, HsinChu Taiwan

Life > Money, just let it crash if you can't save it! You can always get more money but life is priceless...
04-03-2004 Over year old.
 
 
10511555
Heliman
Location: Hong Kong

Dear PVA,

Have you check the connection between 401 and RX, I had experience on bad contact with unseem broken wire inside the 401.


anyway take care, man!

Best Regards,

CCM
04-03-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Sealerman
Veteran
Location: Long Island, New York.

If I question anything on my heli I just replace it.
As far as it being the 401 who knows you could have been hit, you could have a bad bearing or any number of things. I always get the heli away from myself and others as soon as I take off because you never know. I'm sure you learned from that mistake and thanks for letting us learn as well.
Sealerman
04-03-2004 Over year old.
 
 
S_Owen
Senior Heliman
Location: Wichita Falls, TX.

I almost always start flying alone but usually after a few minutes, some people gather in the bleachers. I kid you not. Heli's are like bizarre here or something. There are very very few of us in this area. Most fliers at my field are NATO pilots here for training. They're never here long. Our field is smack in the middle of a large park. Usually, after the first couple flips, a small crowd gathers. Then, when it's time to charge the packs, it's Q&A time. "I didn't know helicopters could do that! How does it work?" Oh God......... You know, at first it was fun to talk about it to spectators, but after you answer the same question 500 times, it gets quite irritating.

One Wednesday afternoon, I snuck out to the field after leaving work early. I was the only one at the field. At about 5:00 some kids were getting ready to play softball. Well, all their parents saw me cutting loose. After running it dry and autoing in. I was startled by a thunderous applause. At least 100 people had gathered behind the fence to watch, I never noticed. Excuse me while I pick my JAW up off the ground!

All else aside, it is true that you should never fly heli's alone. If something happened, you would be just that, alone. BUT as has been said, some of us have no other choice than to fly alone. It always sucks to hear about someone getting hurt in this hobby but unless you are collecting stamps, there is always some risk.

Several years ago, I put the planes up and rode dirt bikes for a while. It was a lot of fun. I was exposed to much more risk doing that than flying helis. I was at Red River Motorcycle Park (otherwise known as Bulcher) having a blast. I saw a fellow rider flying down the creek. He lost it, got tangled in the bike, broke his neck and died. I will never forget that. Even though we play with flying lawn mowers, and have nothing but safety in mind, accidents will happen, thus is the nature of life.
04-03-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Spencer K
Senior Heliman
Location: Camarillo, CA / Phoenix, Az

ouch

be careful out there. i watched a good friend of mine almost lost his arm to a DA 50 swinging a 23 inch prob @ 5 hp. it went right thru his bone in the elbow and kept going. by the time the motor stopped his arm was hanging on by half of his tricep. they did reattach it and is still functional. (hes still healing) tie your planes down, dont be afraid to ask for help.
04-03-2004 Over year old.
 
 
mikefoy6
Senior Heliman
Location: Thief River Falls, MN

i dont know why i had the sudden urge to check my pitch curves before i went out to fly, but im glad i did cause my 401 went hard over while it was sitting on my table.

all i know is that i am VERY lucky that my 401 went crazy on my table in my house, not while i was flying it! It could have been a disaster because i often have to fly alone.

There are 10 types of people in the world: those who know binary, and those who don't
04-03-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Johnny Walker
Senior Heliman
Location: Oxford England

Glad to hear u are ok mate,
I think people are over stating how dangerous helis are, accidents will happen thats the way of the world, I think as long as you are sennsible while flying ,helis are not that dangerous, of course if you are a complete nutter and do fly-bys 1 metre from your self then you are asking for trouble. You can put it into perspective by thinking how many people fly helis and how many people get hurt, not that many, so when an accident happens every one hears about it, you can compare it to flying in an aeroplane, meant to be the safest form of travel but when a plane crashes its all over the news etc..
I think that most people who have helis seem to be quite responsible due maybe to the sheer cost of them in the first place, however if you see someone acting a prick go and kick them up the arse! I think that driving a car is a lot more dangerous than flying helis, if you think of all the bad things that can happen in life you would never leave your home.
Well thats my two pence worth and I know I will probably get burned for saying it.
Well stay safe. JW
04-03-2004 Over year old.
 
 
PietervA
Veteran
Location: New Zealand

Hi JW

Yes, I think they cause few injuries, taking into account the power involved, and the number of things that CAN go wrong. My intention was not to blow the danger aspect out of all proportion, but to alert fellows to the consequence of a gyro failure midflight, particularly when you don't have years of experience under your belt to deal with the suddenness of it all. Also, worth letting others know that the 401, despite it's superb quality and design, DOES fail, perched as it is in a most hostile of environments.

Finally, we can't foresee ALL consequences, and hopefully will never see them for ourselves, so a BB is the only way to allow us to learn from others' experiences. In our town we don't have the luxury of a heli club, and most of the time my son and I are the only helis amongst the planes. Who knows, but some of you might be in the same position.

May you all experience great joy in this addiction

Ciao
04-04-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Johnny Walker
Senior Heliman
Location: Oxford England

Totally agree you did the right thing in putting up the post to warn others,
04-04-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Kino
Veteran
Location: Navan, Ireland

Is this hard over momentary or thats it it just goes over and stays there. I ask because mine started acting strange yesterday first a slow drift to one side and every now and then a momentary hard over, its not nice when your heli does something you didn't tell it to do.

Hope your recovery goes well

Why do we fear change, one of the two certainty's in life
04-04-2004 Over year old.
 
 
staraero1
Key Veteran
Location: Atlantic City, New Jersey

The tail starts spinning and does not stop until the helicopter is landed, if at that moment it happens to be in a skids level hover when it goes tail hard over. Normally this happens while flying around. Then it usually spins out of control and wrecks out in the field somewhere, with the tail spinning the whole time before it hits. There is no response to rudder inputs in either direction. The gyro keeps the tail hard to one side, and it just keeps spinning the tail in one direction.

It appears like it this hard over action is more dangurous when it happens in a hover, then when in flight. If you are hovering close to you upwind, the helicopter would naturally travel backwards towards you while spinning. It would be out of control and coming downwind. Most people do hover in front of them, into the wind in many instances. There is not much chance to do much, if the hard over happens close to you in a hover, while into the wind. The best thing to do if this happens, while in a hover in front of you upwind is this. Go to full low throttle stick instantly. Simply slam the helicopter into the ground without hesitation, and call it a day.

The real answer for safety's sake while flying is this. Always hover and fly at a safe distance from yourself and others, period.

Staraero1
04-04-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Sar
Elite Veteran
Location: Kingston, NY

Strange, I've had mine "drift left" to the stops on power up, it goes away when you reset the power. But in that circumstance I can use the rudder stick to move the tail blades full travel both directions.. When I let go of the stick it slowly moves back to the full left position. Maybe this is different from what others are calling hard over? Does it quickly jerk to one side, or drift in a "Hard Over" condition?

--
Jon
04-04-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
SHUTTLE ONE
Heliman
Location: CHATHAM,ONT CANADA

401

What does futaba have to say about all this?
04-05-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Bubba1
Senior Heliman
Location: Ontario, Canada

How recent a 401 are we talking about???
04-05-2004 Over year old.
 
 
KRUZIN
Heliman
Location: Right now," the computer"

My opinion, I think when you buy equipment for your heli and it fails soon after the purchase, and it has been installed correctly, the company should be responsible for damages and repair of the aircraft.
04-05-2004 Over year old.
 
 
PietervA
Veteran
Location: New Zealand

After a few delays, and the interruption of inclement weather, we finally stole an hour and a half of still weather at our local flying club.

The R50V2 is as before: same battery, engine, and the identical setup. New 401/9253 very kindly provided by John of Helikraft to get me airborne whilst we await Futaba's verdict .............

So how did it go? Just awesome. Rock-solid tail with FF & FB, flips etc.; perfect behaviour from our "pocket rocket". And, yes, we did start up downwind, and a fair distance from ourselves, just to be sure.

So, many thanks for all your support. Hope you learnt from my errors and inexperience. And a big thank you to Helikraft for getting me up and going so quickly

Ciao
04-18-2004 Over year old.
 
 
staraero1
Key Veteran
Location: Atlantic City, New Jersey

Happy the new one is working fine. The recent units don't appear to suffer from the problem you had with your earlier one.

Many of the 401's are good gyro systems. The defective units are junk, and simply can be dangurous in some cases.

Keep it away from you for a while to gain some good operating history with the new unit.

Again, the most recent ones Futaba replaces the hard over units with, seem to be working well for the people who had bad ones replaced by them.

Staraero1
04-18-2004 Over year old.
 
 
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Main Discussion > Personal injury & 401 gyro
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