RunRyder - Pushing the button....USB communication?

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Aerial Photography and Video > Pushing the button....USB communication?

groundeffect
Key Veteran
Location: Newfoundland Canada

I am thinking of ways to trigger the camera.

1) Pushing the button via a servo horn pushing the camera button.

2) Remote trigger control though infraded.

......

How about the cameras that can take a picture while hooked up to a computer??

Some camera while hooked up to your computer, while downloading images or what ever, are able to take a shot with software while attached to the computer. Usually its though a USB connection, the software talks with the camera, then it takes a shot.

My question is, how does the software talk with the camera to take the shot, and more importantly, can we duplicate that conversation?

I think if we can, then we can avoid strapping a servo to the camera with a rubber band or similar.

My camera, the canon A80 is able to shot using software while hooked though USB port to my computer (Windows XP).

Just wondering what actually happens though the USB port to take the picture.

any ideas or comments on this issue?

thanks,
Dean

03-23-2004 Over year old.

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Toadster25
Veteran
Location: Iowa

I have been having trouble figuring out how to trigger my camera too. I have a canon S50 and think it will take pictures while connected to the computer but I havent done that yet.
The way I have taken pictures to this point is by using the intervolmeter feature that the S50 has which is why I bought this camera. The intervolveter is time lapse photography that I can set it to take a picture every 60 second to 60 min. So what I do is set it to take a picture every 60 seconds and go fly. It helps to have someone with a stop watch to tell me when it is about to take a picture.
I would much rather have a way to push the button but I am not sure how to attach a servo to the camera. Also the button needs to be held part way down to focus and then pushed all the way down. I guess I could put it on manual focus and then I don't have to wait for the camera to focus.
I have no idea about how the computer and camera communicate to make it take pictures.

03-23-2004 Over year old.

Climax
Veteran
Location: West London, United Kingdom

You can control most cameras via USB, quite a few now support PTP (Picture Transfer Protocol). This protocol isn't just for downloading images, it can also be used to operate the camera. In some cases this includes obtaining live video feeds, just add the appropriate RF transmitter circuitry and you have a video facility that uses the same optics as you stills camera.

Other cameras support a variety of serial protocols, some of which have been reversed engineered, however most new cameras seem to be going down the USB PTP route (a couple also support PTP over IEEE1394).

Take a look at the following links and you’ll get a flavor of what people have been trying,

http://photopc.sourceforge.net/
http://photopc.sourceforge.net/protocol.html

The tricky bit with USB is building a suitable airborne RC interface. Building USB client interfaces for PC isn’t too bad as the PC acts as the host and already has most of the required “USB protocol stack” software built in to its operating system. The software requirements of a client have been deliberately designed to be lightweight.

Building a host required more effort, but can be done. A few manufacturers are now supplying chipsets and embedded processors specifically for USB host application where you don’t want to have a PC/Mac/Linux box in the loop… As an example, take a look at,

http://www.beyondlogic.org/usb/otghost.htm

I’m building a prototype that allows you to map your spare receiver channels to selected PTP functions, i.e. taking photos, controlling the zoom etc. I know it can be done, but it’s going to take quite a while to do as the USB learning curve is reasonably steep… So far I’ve built the hardware, now I just have to figure out the software…

If anyone is interested I’ll keep you posted, but I think it’s going to take a while to complete so don’t hold your breath… As always, there’s too much going on and I also spend too much of my spare time is spent flying!

03-23-2004 Over year old.

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groundeffect
Key Veteran
Location: Newfoundland Canada

Has anyone hacked their own camera's internals to provide this type of triggering?

Climax: I checked out the protocol, I noticed canon was not mentioned. I am not sure if Canon use the same protocol, but I am guessing they would. Do you know the difference?

Well, if this this type of triggering for the camera works, the camera mount would need an enbeded processor, and battery, more weight...

Are there devices out that are available to trigger the camera, some how turn a no remote activation camera into a remote activated trigger camera, anyone?

Has anyone hacked their own camera's internals to provide this type of triggering?

thanks!!!!
Dean

03-24-2004 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

ELOSSAM
Veteran
Location: Es

Dean
I hacked the focus and shutter wires and use electronic switches from Angelos. Fast, cheap, clean and effective. (can do the same with the zoom wires if desired or hack the IR remote if you dont want to open the camera)

03-24-2004 Over year old.

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groundeffect
Key Veteran
Location: Newfoundland Canada

ELOSSAM: neat!! Well, I would rather not open the camera, so i would like to be able to use the USB jack to trigger the camera.

But, if I could open the camera, what would be used to trigger the camera to take a shot? As in, would it just be an electric charge donig down the wire that is attached to the shutter button?

Can you explain a little more?

My camera Canon A80 does not have IR ( Infraded???).

thanks!!
Dean

03-24-2004 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

ELOSSAM
Veteran
Location: Es

In my case (a Canon G1) thereis a double switch that makes focusing contact prior triggering (a two steep switch) that means a common wire and one wire more for each funtion (focus/trigger)
This camera (and many others) needs to have the focus circuit enable before pressing the trigger steep.
I soldered new wires like extensions of the old ones just before the manual two steep switch and take it them out of the camera. and finished them in a stock female servo plug where the electronic switch will be connected
The electronic switch from Angelos has a new feature that allows you to program two circuits to be switched on sequentially instead of alternatively and I use it to close the focus circuit first and the the trigger one. Not all the electronic switches you can buy at hobby stores work with the trigger camera sistems because some cameras use the switch wires to run a voltage and some to run voltage and may be information. I tested some other switches over my camera a find only the ones from Angelos and the ones that our friend PAL-rotor had time ago work in all conditions (the ones from PAL will be a nice option too as they have auto shutter possibilities to be used when no spare channels are available)

03-24-2004 Over year old.

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electro212
Veteran
Location: Lancaster Pa

i did the same thing with my video camera
took apart the wired remote and jumped the switches
works great

03-24-2004 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

flyboy
Elite Veteran
Location: California

Dual E-Switch
Operates two accessories from one channel. Independently turn On (latch or momentary) and Off two loads of up to 5 amps and 24 volts. Size 1.5 x 1.5 x.75 - weight .75 ounce.
$39.95

http://www.emsjomar.com/SearchResult.aspx?CategoryID=6

I hacked the end off a corded remote shutter releses, and have never looked back.

03-24-2004 Over year old.

ELOSSAM
Veteran
Location: Es

Flyboy, could you turn on secuentially both switches or you must select one or the other?

03-24-2004 Over year old.

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flyboy
Elite Veteran
Location: California

That is a good question, I am not sure. I use it on a three position switch. Up is off, one down activates the focus, all the way down and it fires the shot.

I have the paperwork at work. I can look into it. The device has contacts that you solder your own connectors to..........

There is no reason that you couldn't have two connectors soldered to the circuit.

03-24-2004 Over year old.

ELOSSAM
Veteran
Location: Es

That´s exactly what I say about sequentially, off/on1/on1+on2
Your switch should work ok for Deans too. As he can also switch on the focus only to alive the camera if it comes in sleep mode.
Thanks Flyboy
PD, I´m still waiting for you to know about the exact relation gear of your gasser (from clutch to rotor head if you have two gear stages or more)

I started with a 1/8.07 relation and now I´m running a 1/10 with the 810mm blades, may be to short but still want to know the one you use.

03-24-2004 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

flyboy
Elite Veteran
Location: California

Sorry that one slipped the aging mind. I
will follow up with that info in a day or two.

Flyboy

03-25-2004 Over year old.

Climax
Veteran
Location: West London, United Kingdom

Hi Groundeffect,

I’m not sure about Cannon cameras, if they don’t support PTP at the moment I’m certain that they will in the future. There is quite a lot of activity within the Linux open source community developing USB drivers for cameras using PTP, I’ll post a question enquiring about Cannon support. I’ll let you know what I find out.

My controller prototype is quite small, basically it’s just a PIC and an USB OTG (“on the go” host controller) interface device. If I were to fabricate it on a PCB then it wouldn't be much bigger than a typical receiver, possibly smaller, so it’s certainly very light.

Power consumption of the control circuit is negligible when compared to that of a working digital servo. However, connected cameras do draw a relatively small current from the USB connection (The cameras I’ve experimented with draw roughly 100 to 200ma). This is a bit of a pain, but I’m hopeful that something can be done about this.

For example, to conserve power you could keep the camera in standby mode until you shoot your shot, and then afterwards automatically place it back into standby… Or just fly with an extra battery pack…

If I discover anything useful or interesting I’ll post it here.

03-25-2004 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

groundeffect
Key Veteran
Location: Newfoundland Canada

..............

Climax: Well, I appreciate your help. I hope you find out some interesting things, and I look forward to them in this thread. Also, good ideas for power reservation, sleep/standby mode etc...

Hmmm... there should be a camera designed and sold specifically for us for these reasons. Custom to our flying and remote aerial photography needs. Anyone want to work on a protocol to take to some of the high end camera companies?
I can see it now:

"A digital camera designed by and used by Remote Controled model pilots for purposes for Remote Controled Aerial Photography!"
Any takers?

I am going to be going ahead and using the standard 'strapping a servo to/near' the camera for the shutter activation. I am hoping to do some testing within the next week or 2..

I think I may post another thread just discussing the use of a servo to act as the shutter control.
Maybe I will get some pictures and better ideas on how, and what type of servo to get for the shutter.

thanks for your time and effort, I look forward to any replies!

Cheers,
Dean

03-25-2004 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

phazey
Heliman
Location: Bangkok, Thailand

Re: usb control of cameras:

This Link might be useful - a wireless USB hub. My canon comes with remote capture software over USB - this method seems the ticket. (even low cost webcams could be used...)

Cheers.

04-20-2004 Over year old.

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Aerial Photography and Video > Pushing the button....USB communication?

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