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Henseleit 3DNT - Rocket - 3DMP > Lotterle carb instructions in English
 
 
Cookie Bear
Heliman
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

When I bought my 3DNT (completely standard) the carb came with German instructions. I'm now at the stage where I need to understand the finer points of this carburetor. I'm having difficulty get it to run rich enough that the engine doesn't overheat, and yet lean enough at idle to make it stable. Any help with the effects of the 2 adjustments would be appreciated - especially the way they interact. Thanks. Martyn
03-11-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Pascal
Senior Heliman
Location: Paris, France

Just have a look at the documentation that came with your 3DNT. It explains how to set up your carburator for its first flight and for later ones.
BUT, you have to use the fuel for which this carburator is designed, ie methanol, 12% of Synthetic oil, 0 to 2% of nitro.
To be precise, you must use a fuel with this composition unless you change the needle behind the idle screw.
Other needles exist if you want to use fuel with more oil and nitro.

Pascal
03-11-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Cookie Bear
Heliman
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

Hi Pascal
Thanks for this. I did this and it worked OK, but was very rich on idle. So I leaned the idle mixture adjustment to obtain a good idle, but this seemed to lean the mixture over a lot more of the throttle range than just idle, and the so-called "main" needle (which is mounted separately) seemed unable to compensate, even at 5 turns out. Seems a strange little beastie, this carb - which is why I was seeking the instructions to understand it better. I'm using the recommended fuel (12% Klotz oil, no nitro). Cheers, Martyn
03-11-2004 Over year old.
 
 
RJJ
Heliman
Location: KENT

Cookie Bear,
If you dont like mixing your own fuel, I have found Prosynth 2000 (7% oil 0% nitro) works very well with increased power ( lower oil content) but somehow improved cooling as well. Its available from Weston UK, but isnt cheap.
03-12-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Pascal
Senior Heliman
Location: Paris, France

Martyn,


What you call the idle needle is actually effective from 0 to 95% of the range.
The main needle works from 75% to 100%.
So you understand this carburator does not work at all like an OS one.
The mixture is actually controlled by the angle at which the needle has been cut and its position
This angle should match the viscosity of the fuel you use.
The viscosity is highly dependent upon the % of oil AND the brand/characteristics of the oil used.
While you are still breaking in your engine (is it an OS 91 FXH ?) keep the setting advised by Jan
Then typically, you adjust the "idle" needle at idle speed, actually slightly above idle, by blocking the fuel intake by pressing it between your fingers.

the engine speeds should slightly increase after a while before the engine stops.
If it does not increase : you are too lean.
If it increases a lot ie more than 50% : you are too rich.
The idle needle of this carburator is not as sensitive as the one of an OS carburator. you can start your adjustment by 1/4 of turn, even 1/2...

Once you get it OK, if your fuel has the expected viscosity (the one expected by the angle at which the idle needle was cut), you are OK from 0 to 95% unless your main needle is too lean.

Synthetic oil should be pretty low viscosity. I never used Klotz, as it is not available in france. It could well be that it is not as fluid as the MG SynthePro which is the reference oil used by Jan and Lotterle.
Does your oil have some Castor oil in Klotz ?

Pascal
03-12-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Cookie Bear
Heliman
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

Hi Pascal
Many thanks for these points - especially the point that the so-called "idle" adjustment is effective right up into the midrange and beyond. I got myself into trouble by leaning out the mixture on the "idle" adjustment to get a smooth idle, then found myself too lean in midrange. At the weekend I put it back to the original bench setting, and although the idle is still rich I can live with this - and the mid-range flying is magic. Then to get it running well in speed mode I just leaned out the "main" needle a bit - now at 2.5 turns open.
The Klotz oil I use is 80% synthetic, with 20% castor oil. I am using a fuel comprising 12% of this "mix" and 88% methanol. I'll try and find the viscosity figure for Klotz SuperTechniplate and maybe we can compare with the reference oil you mention - MG SynthePro.
Engine seems to work fine now that I know how the carby works and can understand the compromises. Cheers, Martyn
03-14-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Cookie Bear
Heliman
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

RJJ
Thanks for this. Unfortunately some of these premixes are not readily available in NZ, or they're expensive when pouring them through 90-sized engines, so we're mostly into mixing our own fuels. I like Klotz because it colours the fuel so I can see how much is left in the tank (except in the 3D of course), and because of its anti-corrosion protection. Not sure about the castor oil component yet - still researching this. But I'm all set up for mixing my own fuel so its not a hassle - I have one mix for my Vigor CS (15% oil, 10% nitro) and one for the 3D (12% oil, 0% nitro). Cheers, Martyn
03-14-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Pascal
Senior Heliman
Location: Paris, France

As Klotz contains Castor oil, I can only recommend that you do not use it with the Lotterle carburator. It explains why the Lotterle carb does not work perfectly on your heli. 3DNT and Lotterle documentations specify that you must use only Synthetic oil.

Now if you found a setting that seems OK for mid range and a bit rich for the idle, at least it seems safe this way.
Anyhow, this carburator is very easy to set up when using synthetic oil.

Pascal
03-14-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Cookie Bear
Heliman
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

Pascal
Thanks again. I've just ordered some Klotz Techniplate, which is pure synthetic. We'll see how that works!
03-15-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Cookie Bear
Heliman
Location: Wellington, New Zealand

Pascal
The published viscosity for the Klotz TechniPlate oil, with or without the castor oil component, is 200 cSt (centi-stokes?) for both types. Do you know how this would compare with MG SynthePro?
Also, there is another oil in the Klotz range called Heli-Glow, which I've never used. This has a published viscosity of just 75 cSt but seems to be required in larger proportions (22% - 24%) so it may just be diluted with something. I guess it's the final viscosity of the mixed-up fuel that matters to how the Lotterle carb performs. Cheers, Martyn
03-16-2004 Over year old.
 
 
ogl
Senior Heliman
Location: Madrid. Spain

Hi I use Klotz in my 3DNT (all sintetic).
No problems with it. My main needle setting is 2 1/2 turns from totally closed and idle without problems (I can´t tell you the position´for the low needle but I´ve used the pinch test) .

Take care of the kind of oil from Klotz you want to use, because I tried to use HELIGLO and was absolutely impossible correct settings in the chopper .
I think due to very low viscosity of this oil.

Hope this helps
03-17-2004 Over year old.
 
 
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Henseleit 3DNT - Rocket - 3DMP > Lotterle carb instructions in English
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