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Beginners Corner > New Heli setup

Bugsquawsher
Senior Heliman
Location: Pflugerville Texas

I had a mishap with my first Bird.
The pivot point bolt for the collective arm came out and it jumped up and landed on its tail
To make a long story longer ,
I didn't build it.
I did however build the new one.
I'm using the old one as a parts heli.
Ok
I got the new one all together and I think I have things set
I was tryin to set the tracking , (it's off a little). but its got a bad shake.
Yes I balanced the blades. And no they aren't too tight.
Does tracking make it shake?
And why does it look like the blades are tracking to the left of the heli?
like it's tryin to fly up to the left and Forward
When I give it right Cyclid it only makes the fly bar lean to the right.
almost no change in the blades.
I need help
This is all foriegn to me.
Tom

04-22-2002 Over year old.

Tskrotorhead
Senior Heliman
Location: Washington

Hey Bug, go through it again on the bench and make sure all the control linkages are set per the manual. Did you run it up with the training gear on? I'm not sure sounds more like a linkage problem. Try again.

Paul

04-22-2002 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

Bugsquawsher
Senior Heliman
Location: Pflugerville Texas

Hey Paul
You know you sound like the kinda Guy I could hang out with.
To bad you don't live down south.
Any Who.
Thanks for the response I will look at the linkages again.
When I get back in town
I'm headin out as we speaks , So I will be out of touch till the end of the week
Talk atcha later
Tom
Oh
And I ran it up tied to a workmate workbench , I did 'nt want it flyin away.
And then again on the ground with the gear on.
I did find that my left right cyclid was off one tooth on the servo.
Haven't run it up since though.
See ya

04-22-2002 Over year old.

Virtual1
Senior Heliman
Location: Waterloo, Iowa - USA

Make sure you didn't torque any of the bolts in too tight or get sloppy with the loctite and are binding something up. I watched a newly-assembled heli fly funny on its first flight and when it came back down for inspection, it turned out that the bolts holding the arms on the flybar seesaw were in too tight and were actually pinning the flybar rod inside the seesaw. The paddles could rock up and down on the seesaw but could not turn to change angles. (we were all wondering how it was flying at all after that...) Adding a washer on both sides fixed the problem and it flew fine after that.

This made the head do weird things when exericising the cyclic on the ground, he could actually spin the blades by spinning the cyclic and "chasing" the binding point around in a circle. You can test for free head movement by holding the cyclic full in one direction and spin the head around slowly by hand. Test full deflection formward, back, left, and right. If the head feels like it resists the spinning at any point in its rotation, something is binding up and you need to find and fix it. If something is binding up during normal flight, you WILL break something in the head in flight eventually, and be back for another rebuild. Note: it's not exactly desirable, but is possible and normal for a small amount of binding at full diagonal cyclic, which is not usually "normal" flight. The other way to test is to spin the cyclic around in a circle. If the head starts to rotate, something's binding.

04-22-2002 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

Tskrotorhead
Senior Heliman
Location: Washington

Hey Tom
Thanks, I'd hang out with you too and go burn some fuel but you know demographics has us where we are. Anyway I think that it is kinda cool helping a new flyer out like this way.

BTW, Virtual1 has a couple of things that are worth looking at too.

Later

Paul

04-22-2002 Over year old.

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beedub
Senior Heliman
Location: Arlington, Tx

Bugsquawsher,

I drove through Pflugerville this weekend and thought about you. If you can try to come up and see us @ the Hirobo Cup in Dallas. http://www.mcgirt.net/RC/funfly/funfly001c.htm . We would love to meet you and possibly help you out with any problems that you are incountering!

04-22-2002 Over year old.

Bugsquawsher
Senior Heliman
Location: Pflugerville Texas

Ok Virtual1
I'll look into those things.
I really think that was all moving very well But I will check again

I just got back in town a few minutes ago. I'll be headin home in a few more.

Paul
Washington Huh?
My sister lives up there. A little town Called Roy.
its just south of Tacoma.
I was stationed at the sub Base Bangor back in the early 80s
USMC

And Beedub
Unless I get hit by a truck , Landed on by a comercial Jet, or other wise Mangled up
I will be there.
I'm bookmarking your page.
Talk to yall later
and THanks
Tom

04-25-2002 Over year old.

Bugsquawsher
Senior Heliman
Location: Pflugerville Texas

Ok I went out and did like you said.
I moved the cyclid around in a circulars motion and the head does start to spin.
But everything seems to move freely too.
I did notice that when I put the new swash Plate together that it seemed a little on the tight side.
Not the bearings just the part that move side to side and forward and back.
I'm off to look at it some more.
Tom

04-25-2002 Over year old.

Virtual1
Senior Heliman
Location: Waterloo, Iowa - USA

The sort of bindin you're getting is probably NOT from a sticky ball link or other semi-normal "tightness" in the head.... it's from something mechanically wrong. I wish I had the heli in front of me to look at, it would probably only take a few seconds to find the problem. Repeat the "spin the cyclic" test, but slowly. Get it to a point where you are just starting to turn the head, and then stop turning the cyclic and hold it in that position.

Now while holding it there, shut off your receiver so the servos stay in place. (you can let go of the stick now

Now carefully examine the head. It helps now to know how everything moves and inter-relates. Look for things touching eachother that shouldn't, such as the shoulders of ball links hitting other parts of the head as they pass by. Look carefully at the arms on the swashplate to make sure nothing there is pressing against or catching on anything else. A gentle turn of the head at this point (in the opposite direction the head had started to turn) should cause the swashplate to move a little bit or some plastic linkages to flex a bit, to undo whatever was binding it up. Look for this, and try to figure out what's catching and causing it to move at that point.

You didn't mention if you'd checked to make sure the flybar is free to turn in the head... (this will tilt the swashplate, that's ok) If this is not free to rotate (the paddles should smoothly change their pitch as the head turns when the swashplate is not level) then this is your problem.

Also, with the rebuild, you might be fighting an assembly problem. Look the head over very carefully with the kit instructions if you have them. Make sure all the links are going between the correct places. You didn't have any "extra parts" left over after the rebuild I hope.

If you don't have the manual, I'm sure someone here can provide a scan of the pages you need, or point you to the pdf out on the web.

BTW, if this is a Raptor and you or the previous owner tried a "blade grip flip", (blade bolt heads now facing downward) there are a couple steps that may have been overlooked which are causing the binding. First, the mixing assembly also has to be flipped, otherwise the long links can now bind up on the bolts that attach the washout levers to the washout base. And if that's been done, the washout levers had to turn over, and if the washout links weren't beveled out, they won't be able to rotate fully up against the arms and will bind at very low swash deflection.

Keep us updated on what you find.

04-26-2002 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

Bugsquawsher
Senior Heliman
Location: Pflugerville Texas

Hey there Virtual.
I'm takin it to an expert today , or at least someone that knows alot more than me.
But heres whats happened so far.
First off , Its a 30 Size Sceadu.
This is not a rebuild , its a totally new Heli.
I will save the crashed heli for parts.
I did like you said in your first Post.
I turned on the radio and moved the cyclid full Right ,left, fore and aft, and did the slow rotation like you said While I was in each position.
It didnt seem to bind at any point during the rotation.
Now , hands off the heli I rotate the cyclid lever in a circular motion.
It starts the head rotating. But after close examination ,
The Swash Plate? is just a little on the tight side, Being new and all.
The bearings move free. the tightness is in the Ball in the middle that slides over the main shaft. I have oiled it and the shaft with light oil.
I have not tried starting the heli in the last couple of days.
I did rebalance the mains since my first post. They were real close. And even closer now. This set of blades was alot more out of balance the my first set.
I did do a quick run up of the motor without the blades. It didn't shake as much.
The blade weren't too tight either ,
Why can't I have normal Problems.
I will take it to the pros today.
Its all sittin out in the car now.
Thanks
Tom

04-26-2002 Over year old.

Virtual1
Senior Heliman
Location: Waterloo, Iowa - USA

Tightness in the swash won't cause the blades to spin when you spin the cyclic... if anything they will actually retard the spinning. There must be something binding somewhere for the head to spin, because the swash tilting around isn't a rotational force, so there must be some mechanics binding up at specific points to change this tilting force to a rotational force.

You probably won't notice any binding if you turn the head by hand if the swashplate is level. (unless you've completely trashed your swashplate's bearing) Things usually bind up as the swash approaches full tilt in any given direction. Due to the geometry of a non-CCPM swash, it can tilt farther diagonally than it can just forward/backward or left/right. Since most pilots don't do diagonal flips all that often, binding at extreme diagonals is probably not going to bother you, but it shouldn't be able to bind during normal flight. You can't make the head spin easily even if it's binding at a diagonal, because you will "lose your grip" on the head as the stick crosses a pure horizontal or vertical position. If the binding is too severe, you'll be able to "push" the head around on this binding point throughout the entire rotation of the cyclic.

Hopefully your friend will be able to find the problem. Be sure he shows you what's happening and how to spot things like that in the future.

04-26-2002 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

Bugsquawsher
Senior Heliman
Location: Pflugerville Texas

Hey All
THe shake it gone
I spent some time at the field and got it all tuned in.
I think the shake was from the trackin
It was WAY off.
Now its cool
I'm ready to fly agian as soon as the wind lets up, or sunday mornin gets here , which ever comes first.
Thanks for yalls help
Tom

04-27-2002 Over year old.

Tskrotorhead
Senior Heliman
Location: Washington

Glad to hear that it was something simple. Now you can start to hover and feel that the heli will perform the way it should. Good luck!

Paul

04-27-2002 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

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