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Thunder Tiger Raptors 30-90 - Imperio > Rap 30 with bigger engine?
 
 
Tday
Key Veteran
Location: Needham, MA

I was intrigued by the Rotary review of the Rap 50--at the end MM mentioned some flyers would probably like to put the TT 50 in a stock Rap30 with the fan and engine mount. That honestly sounds like a good idea to me, but then it hit me that there must be other bigger (.46-.50) engine options for a Rap 30. It sounds great to maybe stretch out the pitch curve to the +11/-11 mechanical max, set my governor at 1700 rpm's (keep the gears the same) and simply have a machine that doesn't sag and will pull around great. Anyone done this sort of thing and if so, what engine and other mods required?

Thanks,
Tom
04-21-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
z11355
rrMaster
Location: 10000 is enough time wasted.

generally, you will need to stretch the boom and
add wide chord 600 blades in order to load
the engine correctly. You'll probably want
the larger fuel tank too. Consider the
HD clutch and one piece tail hub
04-21-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Tday
Key Veteran
Location: Needham, MA

But wouldn't that just be the 50 upgrade? If a .46 or .50 fits, why not get a simple power boost with a bigger engine? I know it won't max the engine, but wouldn't it zip the heli? And who cares about the engine loading--does that hurt it? I'm sure there's a throttle curve that works--and if you just put a governor on--won't the speed of the engine be taken care of easily? Rotary mag quote: "If aerobatics is your bag, you might just opt to get the engine mount, fan, 50 engine. Having a short tube and blades with a 50 will offer quite a bit of performance." Anyway, that got me thinking that a .46 might be a nice thing and perhaps less $ and "wasting" less power.

Just a thought.
Tom
04-21-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
z11355
rrMaster
Location: 10000 is enough time wasted.

Instead of rehashing this stuff, I'd suggest
perhaps searching this board and the others
(rcu and rotory) for the thousands of threads
about putting 50 class engines in a R30.

Who cares about engine loading? Your engine
does. When you throw the throw the con rod
or wrist pin (the GV1 is NOT a speed panacea),
pls keep that in mind.

If it was written in Rotary, then that is generally
a good reason to use it to wrap fish as Rotary
is a pretty worthless use of wood pulp.
04-21-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
dwaynet
Senior Heliman
Location: Fairfax, Virginia

I will mention this aspect that you may not have concidered:

Every engine has whats known as a powerband, a peak horsepower operating range, usually about 80% throttle. If you put a 50 in your 30 frames without changing the grearing or blades (or both) you will not be in the "powerband" of the engine at hover/forward flight. You will be below where the engine makes the most power. In essence, you will degrade your performance because you have increased weight without adding much power. You must change gearing or increase load to get the engine in the "powerband". I tried a 46 in my 30 and found this out. The only way to get into max power area is to overspeed your rotors, not advisable. I ended up putting the 30 back in.

Just something to concider before you spend the money.

Dwayne
04-21-2002 Over year old.
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Kurt64
Veteran
Location: Salladasburg, PA

If you ever watch the NHRA on TV, you can see what happens when the tires spin (overspeed in our language). The engine unloads and all sorts of things start to break in the engine. I know that they are much more sophisticated than our hobby engines, but the principle is the same.
04-21-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Tday
Key Veteran
Location: Needham, MA

z11355 you're obviously an experienced guy so why don't you give me the search string that might find the thousands of threads on this. I did a search and "50" doesn't work as a search word--so then you go "tt50" or "OS50" and so forth. I didn't see anything besides the 50 upgrade and references to a Weber 50--but the guy did some gear changing... so if I've cluttered up your board, accept my apologies and pass the search tips along. Thanks for your help.

dwaynet, thanks for your reply--direct experience is always the easiest to really understand. . Kurt64--I understand what you're saying...makes sense. Sounds like you'd recommend I save $ and put it towards a 60 class at some point.
Tom.
04-21-2002 Over year old.
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Doug
Elite Veteran
Location: Naples Florida....

I don't think this "clutters" the board at all. As I am now flying a "conversion" I see that it can be done several ways (per TT instructions)
1.) 85/10 gearing, stock blades, short boom.
2.) Stock gearing, stock blades Short boom.
3.) Stock gearing, Long blades, long boom.
4.) 85/10 gearing, Long blades, long boom.

I am flying option 4 with 15% and it fly's great. I would like to hear others who fly the other configurations
04-22-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Kurt64
Veteran
Location: Salladasburg, PA

I am not really recommending a 60, I just wouldn't recomend putting a 50 into a 30 size airframe without adding the long boom, longer blades, etc........
04-22-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Rotor
Key Veteran
Location: USA

You might consider going with a Raptor 50 instead of a Raptor 60. Some good parts are that you will use less fuel and repair parts are less and they fly pretty well...I would go with the set up David has above though.....

My motto is this..Fly...Rebuild...Fly
04-22-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Tday
Key Veteran
Location: Needham, MA

You've got to love this hobby--there are so many ways to put these things together. Hmmm...I'll be interested to see if anyone has had some success with "option 2". I read a post where some guy had done option 1--and it sounded like his heli was a very wild thing. I can see, however, that option 4 seems to work well. That would be the Rap 50 upgrade kit, I guess.

Thanks for the help,
Tom
04-22-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Rotor
Key Veteran
Location: USA

Yes, they have a Raptor 50 upgrade. Mine flys very well and I really do like to fly it. My 60 size has been sitting most of the time since I got the Raptor 50 going..

My motto is this..Fly...Rebuild...Fly
04-22-2002 Over year old.
 
 
NEM3
Veteran
Location: New Lenox, Il

Here is some research that I did when I was heading for the 50 Conversion. By the way, I am running with the changed gear and longer blades and boom.

O.S. .46FX-H Ringed
RPM Range - 2,000-17,000
BHP/RPM - 1.62/16,000 - Kind of high RPM don't you think
Weight - 385g
Head Speed at Peak HP with 9.56:1 - 1673
Head Speed at Peak HP with 8.5:1 - 1882

O.S. .50SX-H Ringed
RPM Range - 2,000-20,000-That would be a Top Head Speed of 2352 at 8.5:1
BHP/RPM - 1.77/17,000 - Its not 1.8, thats in PS not HP
Weight - 413g
Head Speed at Peak Hp with 9.56:1- 1778 - Same as the O.S. .32SX-H
Head Speed at Peak Hp with 8.5:1 - 2000 - YIKES

Thunder Tiger .50 Pro
RPM Range - 2,000-17,000
BHP/RPM - 1.8/16,000
Weight - 405g
Head Speed at Peak HP with 9.56:1- 1673 - Perfect -
Head Speed at Peak HP with 8.5:1 - 1882 - Perfect for 3D flight -
04-22-2002 Over year old.
 
 
flyboone
Heliman
Location: Boone,NC

I am running an OS46 with stock gearing and stock blades. The only thing I changed was the motor and fan. I love it!! It fly with waay more power and control than it did with the OS32. I do plan however, to get the longer boom and longer blades and different gearing just to see how much better it will get. But it does work with just changing out motors.

Jason
04-22-2002 Over year old.
 
 
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Thunder Tiger Raptors 30-90 - Imperio > Rap 30 with bigger engine?
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