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Got Jet Fuel? Turbine Helicopters > Help! JetCat Won't start!
 
 
edg
Senior Heliman
Location: San Francisco, CA

Hi, I hope I get get some advice on this:

When I got my Jetcat it ran great and had reliable startups. It was sitting around a while while I built the NH-90 for it, and now the NH is nearly done, I got problems. Test flight a couple months ago, I had some butane ignition problems. I've solved that and the butane fires up every time just fine. Today I dropped it in the fuse and gave it a test start.

Butane ignited. It strarted spinning up, but then it shut down. Right after shut down, it sounded like it was trying to do its cool down spin cycles, but wha I heard was just a wierd sound from the starter motor and I couldn't see anything spinning. It just kept doing this for a LONG time -- I assume since no spin = no cooling it just kept up until the temp dropped on its own.

So, I pull out the mechs and look at the manual. I see the part about cleaning the "O-ring" and compression nut with a q-tip and alcohol. I try to find a diagram of this, but can't seem to find anything. What I see in there, on the starter motor shaft, is : a collar with a set screw, followed by a about a 20mm long cylindrical thingy, then a nut with a hole in it (which I assume is the compression nut).

So, I get some alcohol and q-tip and stary swabbing around the area. I'm really not sure what the "O-ring" is. I then do a test rev of the starter motor with the GPU. It seems to rev ok. Gets up to about 6500 RPM and seems fine to me.

I then try and fire it up again. Same thing happens. The GPU "Last Off Condition" was "Low-RPM". Motor again makes a wierd sound when cooling down and no belts spinning.

I'm not sure what the problenm is. Is the "cylinder thingy" on the shaft a 1-way bearing or something? I'm not entirely sure how to detect a problem. Basically I can hold the collar on the starter shaft and spin the belts by hand. I assume this slippage is normal. However I can also hold the collar and spin the cylinder thing a bit. I'm not sure if I should be able to do this or not. It doesn't spin freely. It just seems to stick a bit when rotated in 1 direction.

Any ideas? Thanks!
02-16-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
edg
Senior Heliman
Location: San Francisco, CA

OK, I've taken a closer look. Apparently the cylindar moves forward when the starter motors runs, enganges the compression nut and spins up the turbine. I didn't realize there was a gap in there so it's like a clutch.

So, when this happens it seems like the friction between the cylindar and nut is not high enough. It just slips way too much. What's the best way to remedy this? Take off the starter motor and scratch up the surfaces a little bit?

I've tried running a small piece of cloth dipped in alcohol in the gap to clean it, but it doesn't seem to help.
02-16-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Doug
Elite Veteran
Location: Naples Florida....

That area must be clean and dry. Is there any chance you stored the engine with the inlet down? That would explane how oil got on the "O" ring.

First member of Member of Bearings Anonymous
02-16-2004 Over year old.
 
 
edg
Senior Heliman
Location: San Francisco, CA

I took off the starter motor and it all became clear once I could see the o-ring inside the cylinder. I think with I good cleaning I'll be able to get it to work.
02-16-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
optikaman
Veteran
Location: EnglishTown N.J.

The o-ring is glued in the bearing, if you see a flat in the o-ring you will need to think about replacing it. cleaning it might work for a few starts but i would replace it now.



Alan
02-17-2004 Over year old.
 
 
rob20rx7
Heliman
Location: miami, fl

mine actually did the same exact symtoms you just gave above. i also posted as well but after 2 or 3 more starts it has never done in anymore. i guess we both share that both our helis sat for a long period of time and that may be the cause of this problem.
02-17-2004 Over year old.
 
 
edg
Senior Heliman
Location: San Francisco, CA

I cleaned the O-ring and nut thoroughly with the alcohol. I did a manual test of the spin up and it now hits 9000-10,000 RPM pretty quick. Before, the test would gradually go to about 6000 RPM and slowly climb a bit. So, I'd say the problem is fixed

One thing, unless I'm missing some documentation, it would have been REALLY NICE, if some additional diagrams and detail were included in the manual. The manual "mentions" cleaing the "O-ring" and "compression nut", but it doesn't really show what/where these things are. When I finally took off the starter motor, the O-ring became clear, plus I thought it could be cleaned while still mounted.

My JetCopter came pre-built and all I have is the ECU 4.0 manual. Is there supposed to be an additional manual for HP5 mech assembly?
02-17-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Phil Cole
Veteran
Location: Redwood City CA

Ed,

As far as I know, you have all the documentation regarding the HP5.

Josef did supply me with a CD containing photos of his prototypes. The same pictures are on the web site for the most part.

Apart from that, there's just the Vario "instructions" that come with the head, tail rotor, etc.

I guess all these guys think it's better to spend money on development than a comprehensive user manual. The Jetcat manual is actually better than the others I've seen (Orbit, Fadec, Simjet), even if it doesn't acknowledge the existence of the HP5. They are all manuals for the ECU rather than the engine.

10,000 RPM is about as good as it gets with the starter, so it does appear you have it work again, at least for the moment.
02-17-2004 Over year old.
 
 
optikaman
Veteran
Location: EnglishTown N.J.

HP5 Manuel

Guys i have found a HP5/PHT3 manuel but it is in german. if anyone wants one you can get it here.

German HP5/PHT3 manuel

if anyone can translate it please do so and let up know.

Alan
02-26-2004 Over year old.
 
 
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Got Jet Fuel? Turbine Helicopters > Help! JetCat Won't start!
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