rrTV-PHOTO   New HD TV
HOME   rrTV-PHOTO   GALLERIES   MY GALLERY   HELP-FAQ
myHOME PM pmRR MEMBERS 568 ONLINE 47 EVENTS SEARCH REGISTER  START HERE
 
2 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2     NEXT    >> ]1303 viewsPOST REPLY
Autography FlightPower . Advantage Hobby . Revolution Models

.
.
Main Discussion > Help!!!!
 
 
1crny
Senior Heliman
Location: Springfield IL

Ok.......... today i put on my new 680mm VORTEX sym. carbon blades.
I took it out and fired it up. Took me a minute or two to get the tracking done cause it was way out of wack and the bird was shaking. Got the tracking done and figured that the shaking was from being so far out of track.......but that was not the case... Now the tail shakes left to right -----not violently or fast paced (high frequency) but kinda slow to medium shake......enough that it makes it VERY VERY hard to hover. I had stock woodies on untill today. The bird has never had a shake like this. These blades are perfectly matched ............ Motor was happy also..... any suggestions??? Its an ergo60 by the way....... has anyone ever had this happen???? its got me stumped!!!! PLEASE HELP WITH ANY SUGGESTIONS U HAVE. THANKS IN ADVANCE
WES
11-13-2001 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Dr.Tim
Key Veteran
Location: Mojave Desert

The Shakes

Had a simular problem with my Vario Benzin. I figured out that one tail blade (WOOD) was harder than the other and even though they balanced the same, the mass shook a bit till full speed was achieved. I fixed this by using the fiberglass tail rotors from Vario. SMOOTH AS SILK!! sometimes you just get some wood tail rotors that no matter what you do -- Shake! Hope this helps.
11-13-2001 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
The_Dave
Veteran
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Shake,Shake,Shake, Shake your Heli!

Ahhhh, Im thinkin' if it WAS smooth before you put on the blades and now it shakes perhaps the new blades might be the problem....

Here's thought...put the old blades back on and see if it smooths out...if it does, and it should as it was smooth before, I would say you have a problem with the new blades. I completely rule out the tail rotor because that would give you a high freak vib, and you are discribing a low freak vib. Also another clue that the new blades are suspect is that you had to adjust the tracking as it was way off.....

Trouble shooting helis is systematic. You have to always ask yourself, when a problem occours, "what changed?". If you can figure out what has changed (in this case the blades) you are well on your way to fixing the problem.



Mark McAlpine - 2005 - We will never forget.
11-13-2001 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
1crny
Senior Heliman
Location: Springfield IL

shake

ok......i understand where u are coming from but the blades are balanced to a "T" perfect ! so why would the blades be the problem???
11-13-2001 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
The_Dave
Veteran
Location: Las Vegas, Nevada

Well if it looks like a Duck, and swims like a Duck....

Well.....when you say balanced to a tee what do you mean? Cord-wise, span-wise...what? And if they are blanaced to a tee you still could have one that is "out of shape". Again, a clue is that you had to do some major tracking to get them flying right.

I would try the old blades again...just to see...

Mark McAlpine - 2005 - We will never forget.
11-14-2001 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Dr.Tim
Key Veteran
Location: Mojave Desert

SHAKE SHAKE SHAKE

Check and make sure that both blades have the same airfoil -- sometimes a mistake happens because you said that all was fine till you put the new blades on and found that the tracking was off. For the tracking to be off one blade has to produce more lift -- if all was fine before I would look more towards the blades -- (Maybe you received a mismached set).
Dr.Tim

From Simple minds come simple ideas! Starwood Models, Approach Engineering
11-14-2001 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
1crny
Senior Heliman
Location: Springfield IL

shake

air foil is same on both blades, balanced in every way, ie cord-span-wise etc. Still clueless
11-14-2001 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
1crny
Senior Heliman
Location: Springfield IL

shake

i should also mention that when i said tracking was way off it was out of track by about an inch so so.
11-14-2001 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
butch r
Senior Heliman
Location: Alma, Kansas

1crny hello. I have a set of Vortex 660s and they hover rock solid and never required a tracking adjustment. Reading all the things you checked and double checked and you only replaced the blades makes me wonder. Are they snug but yet loose enough to find lead - lag centers? Also I say this with a lot of reservation, believe me, I've done some stupid things before and I apoligize first. Are they mounted in the right direction? You mentioned they were way out of track. Perhaps one blade mounted wrong? Good luck.
11-14-2001 Over year old.
 
 
1crny
Senior Heliman
Location: Springfield IL

shake

In all honesty i wish i could say that i pulled the bone head mistake of mounting one blade the wrong direction! and for the firmness of mounting......they are at about the same as my other blades.......snug enough not to fall freely when the bird is on its side and not too tight either.......It all most acts like a wagging from too high of gain on the gyro.......could this be a posibilitie? would new mains change the aspects of the gyro and now the gain is too high???? Im newer to all this so i could be way wrong. I was just sitting here thinking about it and that was just a thought that i had...... actually there are about a hundred of things running through my mind cause im so mad at the bird. Also one wuick question....... what is the little plastic button like thing in the middle of one of the blades??? is it something from when they were balanced????
11-14-2001 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
butch r
Senior Heliman
Location: Alma, Kansas

I have that same button you are talking about and I'm assuming that it is there for balancing purposes. But that button is on the underside of my blades. Maybe some other people can elaborate on this. I only have one set of Vortex blades but an assumption would be that they would put that "button" on the underside because of cosmetic reasons. Just an assumption and you know what assuming makes you. Sorry, I can't be of anymore help.
11-14-2001 Over year old.
 
 
1crny
Senior Heliman
Location: Springfield IL

button

yes it is on the bottom of mine also.
11-14-2001 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
JBolt
Heliman
Location: Mountain View, CA

Shake

Just a thought. Check the trailing edge for any seperation. I had a set of Vortex 550s that had a similar problem. They looked and balanced fine but on close inspection about an inch and a half of the TE on one blade was seperated. I've heard of another set of Vortex blades having the same problem.

Make sure the blade bolt hole has been drilled straight. Seen this happen before.

Check for blade warp as well. Doesn't take much.



Jay
11-14-2001 Over year old.
 
 
TotlKaos
Senior Heliman
Location: Vineland, NJ

Blades

I would have to agree with The_Dave... He has suggested that you put the original blades back on and see if the problem goes away.. I would love to know if it does. If the problem goes away I would try a different set of the same blades and see what happens... The only thing that changed was the Blades... the Answer lies there since that is the only thing that changed.
11-14-2001 Over year old.
 
 
1crny
Senior Heliman
Location: Springfield IL

shake

does anyone know if too high of head speed would cause this??? Seems like i had a higher head speed than with the woodies??? I dunno...... just another thought I had sitting here thinking about it.
11-14-2001 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
freestyle
Veteran
Location: Redmond WA USA

I get the impression you are describing a gyro-induced tail wag. This also goes hand-in-hand with your 'higher head speed' observation.

Perhaps the stock blades gave you a higher head speed than the woodies, that might make the gyro feedback too high, so you'd get a wag. That's easy to fix though, just turn the gyro gain down a couple/few percent until the wag goes away. Since the tail rotor is turning faster than before, you'll still get the same holding power, maybe even better.

Do the composite blades have a thinner airfoil than the woodies? That would not surprise me... that would mean less drag, thus higher head speed, thus tail wag.

Put the new blades back on, hover to verify that the wag is back, then turn the gyro gain down a couple percent and retest. Turn the gyro gain a couple more percent if necessary. If you can stop the wag and the tail still feels as locked as before, you've solved the problem, and your heli will probably fly better than it did with the woodies. You'll have more power (less wasted to drag), better autos (less rotor speed decay) and probably better tail rotor performance too (don't let the lower gain percentage fool you).

On the other hand, if the tail starts to feel sloppy before the wag goes away, I'm barking up the wrong tree. Tell us what happens.
11-14-2001 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
1crny
Senior Heliman
Location: Springfield IL

shake

those were my thoughts exactly freestyle......... I ran out of daylight to try anything else.....weather permitting and if i can get the kids to cooperate we will go out in the yard and try some testing....... i tend to think you are right one the money.......(higher head speed) since its a slow shake......almost exactly like gyro tail wag........ i will let you know tomorrow after i try messing with the gain...... if that doesnt fix it then im going to put the stock woodies back on and see if it goes away. till then........ burn some fuel!
11-14-2001 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Buzzin Brian
Elite Veteran
Location: College Station, Texas

Head Speed

I have seen the head spead change dramaticly from one composite to another(I know we are talking about woodies to composite). So that is a definate thing to look at. Do you have a friend or perhaps a local flyer that owns a tach? If so I would suggest puting the old woodies back on and taching the heli in a hover. Then put the composits back on and tach it again. And campare the 2 readings. In an instance similar to this. I had a fly buddy change a set of blades at the field from K&S FG blades to a set of MS 3D blades. And I can say that his head speed was dramaticly different. Which adversly affected the helis feel and performance. I would say that I run my heli at around 1550 RPM's at hover and around 1700 RPM's in FF. So if you are getting a considerable amount more head speed than that. Then IMPO that is most likely your problem.
11-14-2001 Over year old.
 
 
1crny
Senior Heliman
Location: Springfield IL

head speed

when i had the woodies on about 2 weeks ago the head speed was at about 1650. I had acsess to a tach back then.........now i do not have acess to a tach, but i can say that by the sound of the head it is considerably higher. I guess with no tach i wish i had a GV-1 to controll the head speed.
11-14-2001 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
freestyle
Veteran
Location: Redmond WA USA

There's nothing inherently wrong with running a high head speed, I run my Concept 30 SRX at 1950-1990 or so. I wouldn't run a 60 above 1900, but plenty of people run 1850 with no problem.

You might need to adjust the rest of your setup to accomodate whatever head speed you use, whether it's high, low, or in between, that's all.
11-14-2001 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
2 pages [ <<    <    ( 1 )     2     NEXT    >> ]1303 viewsPOST REPLY
CarbonXtreme . Midland Helicopters . HeliProz

.
.
Main Discussion > Help!!!!
  UPDATE SCREEN   PRINT TOPIC Advertisers 

Subscribe to This Topic

Saturday, July 5 - 9:23 pm - Copyright © 2000 - 2008 runryder.com | email | link to rr | runryder needs cookie