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Off Topics > Garages and mechanics - sometimes you gotta hate them!

HS748
Senior Heliman
Location: online

Hi,

I took my car (a 1997 Z24) into the shop yesterday to get some work done:

water pump, timing chain tensioner, gasket cover, O2 sensor, fuel regulator all replaced.

When I got the car back, it ran like crap! The mechanic took a look at the car, and said there is something wrong with the timing chain tensioner. He also said he had trouble installing it.

Now the problem. Because I purchased the parts at the local parts store, the gargae owner said IF the part is faulty I have to pay for the labout to replace(again) the timing chain tensioner. He said if I would have got the part through him, that the labour to replace it the 2nd time would have been covered.

I think, of course, they will say the part is the problem, just so they gaet to charge another $250 in labour.

Rant over,
Jarrett

01-28-2004 Over year old.

Drunk Monk
rrProfessor
Location: Preston, UK

I can see his point if he didn't provide the parts, but that sure sucks, specially at that price!

Stephen

I only open my mouth to change feet.....

01-28-2004 Over year old.

bl092599
Heliman
Location: MN

Its a ****ty thing, but think of it this way, do you bring your own beer to the bar? or your own cheese to McDonalds?
It really sucks on both ends, cuz I know I hate having to rework something, especially if somebody supplied their own part. I had a guy bring in his own trans once and it didn't work correctly from the get go.
What do you do? warranty someone elses crap? It's hard to say, maybe you should take the car to another shop and get a second opinion? Most techs with a brain can figure out if it was installer error or part failure. If it is a part failure, most of the manufacturers are good enough to provide some sort of labor reimbursement. If it was installer error, you would have to tell the 2nd place to stop if they find any evidence as to if it is or not. Then you can have a bitch fest with the other Tech. Either way I think you'll end up forking over another 250. If the Original Shop fesses up and says it was there fault (if it really is) they should then pay for the repair, and then they are actually worth going back to cuz you know that they are honest. BTW did they put new Timing Chain Guides in? They should have.
Good Luck and Let us know what happens.

01-29-2004 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

debogus
Senior Heliman
Location: Beaumont,peoples republic of mexifornia

Add tire shops

I really like when they say " ready in a hour" You come back and the car is still up on the lift with all the tires off, and they proceed with the sales pitch ,you need this ,this and that.
I reply No $hit . I can do all that myself I just dont have a tire mounter!
PUT THE TIRES ON. The mechanic I used to swap a motor incouraged me to pick up some parts that I needed
He said it would cost more than if I just ran and picked it up. Thats why I use him. Gives it straight with no BS.Hell he's the only one I've used twice.

Dave

01-29-2004 Over year old.

HS748
Senior Heliman
Location: online

"What do you do? warranty someone elses crap?"

The part in question was brand new, still in the manufacturer's packaging!

01-29-2004 Over year old.

debogus
Senior Heliman
Location: Beaumont,peoples republic of mexifornia

My Vote

Goes for taking it to a another shop .Pay the extra ,mark it up as a learning experience.The dude said he had trouble putting it on .
If found that it was damaged from improper instalation use that against the first one. Then trash talk him all over town.

Dave

01-29-2004 Over year old.

bl092599
Heliman
Location: MN

I was referring to the transmission failure moreso than anything else
I didn't feel that I should have to warranty (install another tranny for the guy for free) somebody elses poor rebuild. And just because a part is brand new doesn't mean it is a good part. Think of all those TT 36 engines, they were brand new and most of those are junk right outta the box

01-29-2004 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

MPA
Elite Veteran
Location: Australia

There is an assumption by many that repair shops only make money from labour.
In fact, we sell spare parts too.
If we didnt the labour alone would not be enough to run any workshop.

If I get someone who buys there own parts I simply up the labour rate to account for the loss on parts and acount for the extra hassle of fitting you can bet, the cheapest part in town.

In short, sales of parts helps finance the low labour rates you pay for automotive repairs.
You might not think that labour rates are low but by comparison to other industries its cheap.

Any mechanic who doesnt quote a higher labour rate for user provided parts jobs is robbing himself.

Now to that part.
When someone states they are going to get the parts it normally means they are not prepared to pay for the more expensive parts.
They turn up with the cheapest they can get, China knock of stuff.
Its all new and in a box but it seldom fits easily and generally doesnt last long.
Timing chain and belt components fall into this category.
There is lots of Non OEM belts tensioners and all sorts.
They are cheap crap only to be used to fix a car you intend to sell.

The fact he tells you there where problems fitting it indicates to me that it was a non OEM part to avoid paying the full OEM part prices.
OEM parts fit, no fuss.
Non OEM parts are a 50/50 depending on whether they are a popular part like a brake pad which is fine using non OEM or a timing chain and tensioner which is not common parts and the non OEM version are real crap.

01-29-2004 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

HS748
Senior Heliman
Location: online

Low labour rates? Are you kidding!?!

Also, the part was the EXACT same part, from the EXACT same supplier he uses!

01-29-2004 Over year old.

MPA
Elite Veteran
Location: Australia

water pump, timing chain tensioner, gasket cover, O2 sensor, fuel regulator all replaced.
$250 labour

Yeah thats cheap.

If you buy the part off the same supplier then like he says, he accepts warranty on part he provides, he does that from what he makes from the parts.
People decide to snip a dollar off here and there thinking they are getting a better deal but you just chose to not insure yourself against defective parts.
Had he supplied them at the retail rate to you as he said, youd be covered.

Same applies for any secand hand componenets used, the customer chooses to go second hand then the cost of replacing a defective componenets falls on them.

It may not be defective, maybe he just stuffed it up.
Get someone else to look it over then youll know.

01-29-2004 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

HS748
Senior Heliman
Location: online

The total labour was about $700! The $250 is just the labour cost to replace the timing tensioner.

Also, he knew I was supplying the parts myself. If he would have told me he would not warranty the labour, I WOULDN"T have bought the parts myself! He didn't let me know, and it doesn't state that anywhere on the work order!

Thx,
Jarrett

01-29-2004 Over year old.

tadawson
Elite Veteran
Location: Lewisville, TX

And then there is the great scam known as "book labor" where they ignore the actual time worked and charge what some apparent retarded, no-opposable thumbs dumbass would take to do the job. I really got livid once when a dealer attempted to charger me for more labor time than the car was in their possetion - including overnight! Rape by any other name . . . . and this makes no consideration for the minor detail that if multiple tasks are being done, that a lot of the labor may be the same. (Like the water belt and tensioner - you gotta go through one to get to the other, so if the tensioner is done, the new water pump should be $0 labor, since they have to R&R it anyhow as part of the work for the tensioner . . .)

At any rate, I have that side of the industry to thank for a great set of tools and knowledge - I pretty much wrote off these high school dropouts and do all my own work . . .

***Sigh***

- Tim

01-29-2004 Over year old.

helicrasher
Senior Heliman
Location: Belgium

It's like sending a faulty hirobo part to min. aircraft.

I'm sure they will take care of.

Ask him to take it out and you must go for the warranty to the shop where you bought it.
They will tell you he broke or not broke the part.
When he broke the part, it's his problem to replace, because you give him a good part.
That's how I would do it.
Mario

01-29-2004 Over year old.

MPA
Elite Veteran
Location: Australia

$700 is more like it.

"He didn't let me know, and it doesn't state that anywhere on the work order!"

It isnt a common occurence that we have faulty parts and Im sure he never expected to be faulty.
He probably should have mentioned it when you told him you where providing the parts.
I do but not because Ive had an issue with parts provided but in case I do its to cover my arse and I prefer to sell them the parts myself, more because the far more common problem is the wrong part arrives and it leaves a car sitting there waiting for the right one, if I provide the parts I can sort it right away and get the thing done by days end and out the door...

Quote
"book labor"

Ensures the customer doesnt pay more labour for any job than it should take a "base" qualified mechanic to do.

A skilled mechanic will do it a lot faster, but thats not your profit to make it is the employers cream, he is the one paying the skilled mechanic more than the others and he is the one who has skilled mechanics.

You get the benefit of getting your car back sooner.

I have worked in a number of places on sub contract as a mechanic and they pay rates are hourly and based on the book time rate for an agreed amount per book hr.
Some jobs can be done faster so I make more, some take longer so I make less.

What I charge him he passes on to the customer at the retail book rate.
Why ?
Because he has to make it attractive enough to keep the skilled mechanic working for him.
There are a lot more mechanics jobs than there are mechanics, the reason is mechanics pay is crap and the profit in running a workshop and employing mechanics is pretty crap too.
If there was a lot more mechanics then emplyers wouldnt have to offer good deals to mechanics to get them and keep them, but then the only way to get more mechanics is to pay them more than uis the case now which will mean more expensive repairs than now so that wont help you.

One day the value of the job may go up as will the prices for repairs, we mechanics hope.
Id enjoy the cheaper prices while it lasts or go learn how to do it yourself.
For the price of a Heli you can get a modest set of Snap-On tools.

01-29-2004 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

tim tompkins
Veteran
Location: Boston, Georgia sw Ga. Thomas County

attitude

I am sorry to hear all the negative stories.I have owned my own auto repair shop since 1977.The biggest problem I see in your story is lack of communication.I would be very reluctant to do any work of that nature unless you were a regular at my shop.The customer that only comes in and shops for price has no interest in me staying in buiseness.Most of my customers start off as service first and we do the repairs that we find.We don't need to sell stuff today that won't need doing,we will do them when time comes.The value of this relationship is high for both the customer and my shop.We never have had anyone leave my shop feeling cheated!I have never had to defend myself in court either.If you seem uncomfortable with my shop after a couple of visits I don't do anymore work for you.Some people never trust anyone I can't change that.I need the profit we get from buying parts at wholesale and selling retail to pay the overhead.The same goes for any buisness to stay open. TimT

01-29-2004 Over year old.

dtamustang
Heliman
Location: naples florida

if you think the guy is ripping you off................change it yourself, and don't get ripped off again either by him or the next mechanic. most mechanics are knuckle dragging dolts right?
...............by the way if is was the exact same part from the exact same supplier.............why did you not let the knuckle dragging dolt make his measly markup on it.....price to you should have been the same either way ?

01-29-2004 Over year old.

tonysrepair
Veteran
Location: portland oregon

Quote
And then there is the great scam known as "book labor" where they ignore the actual time worked and charge what some apparent retarded, no-opposable thumbs dumbass would take to do the job

A mechanic is taught that he or she has to beat the time in labor manuals to make money. (we don't get paid to stand around only for work completed, its called flat rate. ) The time is figured by a master tech using a new clean vehicle with no stripped or broken bolts . They also don't alot any time for the dirt and grime you have to clean off.This is according to the mitchell labor guide in the front of the manual . IMO it takes 5 years to learn how to take apart and assemble autos and another 5 to learn all the various noises mean . Its a thankless job , thats why not many are going in the field . you also have to OWN your own tools to the toon of $20,000. This is why labor rates are what they are . Most states like mine also charge you tax on your tools , because as they state it your making money with them . Not to mention the schooling involved. Most seminars are about 200.00 for a day or two to keep up. With all this your not taking much income home at the end of the day . In my town no one picks there mechanic from the phone book , its strictly by referral from other customers. So, you rep is your income. IMO you also don't want to piss off your good mechanic that was referred to you because if he or she is like me they will refuse to work on your car . I have had people beg me to work on there car again after using other shops around town and I refuse.

01-29-2004 Over year old.

HS748
Senior Heliman
Location: online

Well, the situation has been solved. I feel the shop handled the whole thing quite fairly in the end, and they will be keeping me as a customer!

Regards,
Jarrett

01-29-2004 Over year old.

bl092599
Heliman
Location: MN

And the solution was......

01-29-2004 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

the Wasp
rrProfessor
Location: Vt

I had an 86 and than an 88 Z24,,, we bought them brand new, the wife love their looks,,,

the 86 was an OK car, funny though, the tires were all-most balled at 22000 and the clutch was smoked at 28000, I wonder why

the 88 was some junk, nothing but problems, doors, trim, trunk lid, nothing lined up, the motor kept stalling at any time, I took it back to the dealer and told them that it kept stalling, 3 days later I went back and the service manager said "it never stalled once", I said to him "Oh no, give me the key" so I got in that car (with 2 mechanics and the service manager watching) and I turned the key 5 times, and the car stalled 5 times, "oh I guess it does stall" the manager says,,, well they never could fix it, so we took it to arbitration and we lost, I told the arbitrator that I was going to sell it and buy Japanese, and he shook his head, when we left the arbitrator got in a Subaru,,, we then bought a 91 4runner, never a problem there, I still drive it...

Jim

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

01-29-2004 Over year old.

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