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Off Topics > David Kay Resigns - No WMD in Iraq.

Rotor
Key Veteran
Location: USA

Just for information sake. I am Rotor and I am not in on this. This person is Rotor X. Not sure why he picked a username so close to mine as I am sure there will be other confusion too. Rotor not Rotor X.

My motto is this..Fly...Rebuild...Fly

01-29-2004 Over year old.

MAH
Senior Heliman
Location: Galesburg, Il.

Well said Joey. Im glad there are some that look at the facts
before spouting off their opinions.

To all you naysayers...

Where was your sage advice BEFORE the war? Its easy
to say "this was wrong" or "this shouldnt of happened"
AFTER THE FACT.

Place yourself in the hot seat and make the decision
before the war given the information and intelligence
available AT THAT TIME.

Not so easy, huh? The mark of a true leader is one that
can and will make the tough decisions when no one else will.

The war in Iraq was the right thing to do for numerous reasons
and despite what the liberal media would have you think the
world is a better place for it.

Mike Hammer
Galesburg,Il

01-29-2004 Over year old.

RotorX
Key Veteran
Location: London

Quote
Just for information sake. I am Rotor and I am not in on this. This person is Rotor X. Not sure why he picked a username so close to mine as I am sure there will be other confusion too. Rotor not Rotor X

Go back to bed

01-29-2004 Over year old.

jerrythercpilot
Veteran
Location: --South Florida --

Quote
This whole thing is about OIL

This is phase must be on page one, chapter one, of the Liberal Handbook.

Give me a break, How many of you who claim its all about the oil ride bicycles or walk to work???

Light travels faster than sound, thats why some people appear so bright UNTIL you hear them speak.

01-29-2004 Over year old.

Rotor
Key Veteran
Location: USA

...

My motto is this..Fly...Rebuild...Fly

01-29-2004 Over year old.

spaceman spiff
Key Veteran
Location: Tucson

Burp,,, excuse me.

01-29-2004 Over year old.

RotorX
Key Veteran
Location: London

Quote
RotorX, I figured you would be someone like this

The why did you bother, :

A copy is to say excatly the same

Rotor, mmmm

RotorX nah i can tell the difference, the big X at the end gives it away now go to bed:rolleyes

01-29-2004 Over year old.

Rotor
Key Veteran
Location: USA

...

My motto is this..Fly...Rebuild...Fly

01-29-2004 Over year old.

joey.furr
Senior Heliman
Location: Little Rock, AR

Rotorx

what are you...eleven, maybe twelve?

01-29-2004 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

RotorX
Key Veteran
Location: London

Rotor

I am very sorry we have similar handels, but get over it, if you think you can run me off this site - try me

You jumped on screaming about how you are rotor and not RotorX and not to be confused - what you saying people cannot tell between the two, go play with you ego in bed where you belong.

Before this thread get hijacked any further, if you reall y want to get in to it we can start our own thread if yer like,

Sorry pistole,

yes joey i am afraid i am

01-29-2004 Over year old.

pistole
Veteran
Location: Heli Land ....

I don't know what news reports you hear but this war was sold as a WMD war.

On the other hand :-

1. Tyrants , there are lots of them.

2. Governments who kill their own people , there are even more of these types.

So , the only distinguishing factor that the Admin. must use is the fact that Saddam could come to your front door and "gas" you with his WMDs , hence we need to hack off his head now.

Now , no WMDs.

Hmmmmmmmmm.

For those who argue that they're out there , but just haven't been found , this is not an argument at all. Is certainly does not help your case.

Rap70. TT70.Rap50. TT50.RD8000.

01-30-2004 Over year old.

Newdaddy
Heliman
Location: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

Hello;

I wish to request clarigication take exception to Joey's "facts".

Factoid number 1: "If the Iraqi regime........immediately destroy ....all weapons of mass destruction........related material"

I'm not sure that it was factually proven, either prior to or after the invasion, that Iraq possessed WMD and LRMs. Have you seen proof, or possibly you are referring to the fact that GWB did make this statement ?

Factoid number 2: "If the Iraqi regime wishes peace, it will immediately end all support for terrorism, and act to suppress it as all states are required to do by U.N. security council resolutions."

I'm not sure that it was factually proven that Iraq supported terrorism. Have you seen proof, or possibly you are referring to the fact that GWB did make this statement ?

Factoid number 3: "If the Iraqi regime wishes peace............account for all Gulf War........... personnel whose fate is still unknown and .....by Security Council resolutions."

Again, I don`t recall seeing proof that Iraq had POW-MIAs. Possibly you are referring to the fact that GWB did make this statement ?

In my opinion, for GWB to use unproven "facts" as arguments to justify an invasion, at the very least makes it open season for speculation as to what the real motivation was.

The main FACTs are that much of the world didn`t beleive his facts before the invasion, and many more Americans no longer beleieve his facts after the invasion.

Thats why this thread exists. Inquiring minds want to know the real facts.

On another subject, did you know that because GWBs brother was OIL BUSINESS partners with OSBs brother, that the Bin Ladin family was granted presidential permisson to leave Houston, get in their private jet
and leave the USA, ONE DAY day after 9-11, when 100,000 American citizens were stuck in airplanes across the world.

Seems to me that if they really wanted to find OSB, they woulda kept his brother/mother/father and beat the crap outa them until they talked.

I guess the OIL got in the way.

IT ALL ABOUT OIL!

James

01-30-2004 Over year old.

spaceman spiff
Key Veteran
Location: Tucson

Hmmmm.. Canada has oil...

01-30-2004 Over year old.

Newdaddy
Heliman
Location: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

Yes, more than Saudi Arabi.

But you can't have it because it's owned by Exxon and Mobil.

01-30-2004 Over year old.

joey.furr
Senior Heliman
Location: Little Rock, AR

NewDaddy

I'd be happy to oblige:

Quote
I'm not sure that it was factually proven, either prior to or after the invasion, that Iraq possessed WMD and LRMs. Have you seen proof, or possibly you are referring to the fact that GWB did make this statement ?

Saddam used chemical weapons of mass destruction on 15th of April, 1987, and March 16th, 1988 against the Kurdish town of Halabja. This is common knowledge. If you aren't going to do any research, you aren't worth debating.
One of thousands of references

Quote
I'm not sure that it was factually proven that Iraq supported terrorism. Have you seen proof, or possibly you are referring to the fact that GWB did make this statement ?

Sabah Khalifa Khodada Alami, an Iraqi military officer, defected from Iraq in 1999 to Turkey. He now lives in Fort Worth, Texas. When he was debriefed, he described his training mission at Salman Pak, a military base about 21 miles from Baghdad that had been used for the testing of secret weapons, including chemical biological warfare agents, and paramilitary training for covert actions. Subsequently, a second Iraqi defector, a former intelligence officer who defected in early 2001 , described "Islamicists" training on a Boeing 707 parked in Salman Pak from about 1995 to as recently as September 2000. Is that clear enough...or do you think they were "Lies, and the lying liars who tell them" also?

Quote
Again, I don`t recall seeing proof that Iraq had POW-MIAs. Possibly you are referring to the fact that GWB did make this statement ?

Current Status 2003 Persian Gulf War POW/MIAs

No, inquiring minds want to ignore the facts and believe what they want to believe on some unknown anti-war principal. Oh, and type things in ALL CAPS...thinking that it somehow makes them true.

01-30-2004 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

spaceman spiff
Key Veteran
Location: Tucson

Newdaddy,

I didn't know it worked that way, but you are right. I decided to do a quick search and i ran into something interesting. Iran is currently auctioning off oil rights to 16 areas of land for oil exploration. looks to me like companies buy the spots, and countries are glad to sell them.

01-30-2004 Over year old.

pistole
Veteran
Location: Heli Land ....

How would you like to go to jail and your family members killed by the authorities for what they 'KNOW' you have done but that no one can prove ?

You'd cry bloody murder , wouldn't you ?

So now , your argument would be that I have hidden the stuff , right ?

Good on me then !

If I am smart enough to be able to hide this stuff in such a way that you can't find it , even with your omnipotent superiority , then it just proves that I haven't got any.

Rap70. TT70.Rap50. TT50.RD8000.

01-30-2004 Over year old.

spaceman spiff
Key Veteran
Location: Tucson

... so if i hide your helicopter, and you can't find it, it doesn't exist!!!!

Cool!!!! think of all the money we can save on waste disposal! The EPA will be thrilled!

Hmmm where did i leave that stack of bills? Oh darn!

01-30-2004 Over year old.

Newdaddy
Heliman
Location: Winnipeg, MB, Canada

Joey;

Sorry if I wasn't clear, but I meant that there was and still is no evidence of WMD prior to the second invasion of Iraq. Prior to the first invasion, they did have and did use them, but they seem to have been missing for about a decade or more, don't they. Hope you find them though.

Hell, back then even Canada had WMDs, didn't every country ? We got rid of them, honest.

If I was an Iraqi military refugee, I would tell you where the nukes are located, really, I would. Especially if I could get a house in Texas and a consulting contract, which is what your "intelligence officer" is doing now. Check into it. Personally, I would trust a double agent spy only slightly less than a politician.

As for the "fact" that Iraq was holding POWs incognito, wouldn't they be easier to find than the WMDs, now that the USA rules Iraq ?

Lastly, where did you get the idea that I'm anti-war ? I love a good war, they really demonstrate what kind of liars we elect. I'm not anti-war, I just believe that politicians are at best only self-interested, and at worst, lying murderers.

FYI - I have family that fought in Iraq to liberate Kuwait.

My opinion is that governments should not be allowed to start wars, it should be done democratically via referendum, only not a secret ballot.

Pistole;
No, I wouldn't complain, I would fight back. I got my STI HiCap ready for such occassions. Go ahead, hide my heli.

Spaceman
Yes, everything is for sale, except the truth. My helicopter is so well hidden now, even I can't find it.

01-30-2004 Over year old.

FlightPower
Veteran
Location: Herts UK

Somewhere way up the thread someone asked "what would have happened if Al Gore had been in the whitehouse".

Well, here's my personal point of view on the issue... starting at the beginning...

I would consider it a convincing possibility that 9:11 was an attack aimed by fundamentalists to humiliate and then assasinate GWB in person owing to his known links to massive American oil interests that exercise economic power in Islamic territories and also owing to unfinished business between Bush Snr and Sadam and also with percieved military occupation of Kuwait.

On 9:11 one plane fell short of its target leaving some ambiguity as to its aim, but most likey, the heroes who brought it down prevented a direct hit on the Whitehouse. The other two levers of power politics abroad: economic (WTC) and military power (Penagon) were hit.

GWB characterised the attacks as a mindless assault on all Americans, it's allies and the values of freedom in general. By accepting this argument (only reasonable at the time given the tragedy and outrage) we have widely glossed over the possibility that the entire business may simply have been concieved as a grand scale assasination attempt upon GWB himself, the heir to GHWB; without whom the attack itself and the tragic, frightening and economic consequences that have spawned from it may simply not have occurred at all.

In the event, GWB was not so much humiliated but empowered by 9:11. GWB was not killed. That fate was left to 3000+ 550 Americans (and many Brits and others along the way). This is not to imply that the matter is in any way settled by this body count either. The world appears to be plunged into a state of fear and chaos more than likely owing to the presidency of the one man, Oil Tycoon, Crusader In Chief, Barely Elected, Pres. George Bush the sequel, unique on earth, for his ability to galvanise the hatred of 2 Billion musilims around the globe into a single malevolent force.

Returning to the original statement - 'what if Al Gore had been in the Whitehouse?' (or Al Gore's brother had been the governor of Florida). For starters an Al Gore presidency (whatever its other possible merits of failings) would not likely have been percieved as the final insult to 2Billion Muslims world wide nor by the same token could it have created such a monumental liability to the security of America and to the world at large. Hence for the reasons given, my personal view is that None of the above would likely have come to pass had Al Gore or anyone else but GWB been in the Whitehouse. GWB may have performed impressively as part of a strident solution to terrorism, it would however seem reasonable also that he is at least a major irritant with respect to the problem.

As for WMD. What a lot of nonsense. No matter what Sadam may or may not have had in Iraq, spirited away to the Sudan or whatever - if he'd attacked the US with it, he would have been nuked the same afternoon, and he'd have known it too. Sadam was wedded to power, wealth and egomanical posturing, even when caught in his rat hole he blurts out 'don't shoot I am Sadam Husein, president of the republic of Iraq' - as though he was stll president of anything at all. Not exactly the traits of a martyr.

Ken Livingstone, Mayor of London last year described GWB as 'the greatest threat to world peace on planet earth'. For the sake of everyone living in these times, may GWB's remaing tenure in office be as short, and as uneventful as possible. If he returns to office at the end of 2004 the logic above, if correct, predicts there will be a nightmare to contend with.

JC

01-30-2004 Over year old.

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