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Off Topics > How frickin stupid..

the Wasp
rrProfessor
Location: Vt

it doesn't bother me that eSmith speaks what he believes, that is his right,,,

but what does bother me is, when he is done speaking his believes, he does not thank the US for that right to speak it,,,

it was not a life time ago that the US stopped the wolf at the gates, if it was not for the US that wolf would have eaten eSmith and the rest...

Jim

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

01-22-2004 Over year old.

eSmith
Veteran
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

If by socialist you mean I want the needs of socety put ahead of the needs of an individual then yes, I guess I am.
And your right, it is a sweeping generalization . Sadly though, it happens to be true. Saying all people die is also a sweeping generalization, but it is true.

The exploits of your government are well documented but the media you are exposed to is controlled by a small handfull who profit from keeping you out of the loop when it comes to business decisions. Western media is completely biased towards the corporate influances that created and fund it.

Do some reading and look up some of the claims I've made. every word is documented by the associated press and is true. It just never hit's the front page because it works against what bush & Co. are trying to acomplish.

I'm not anti american citizen, I'm against the crook who stole your democratic rights when he bullied his way into the oval office by using daddies buisness partners from the carlyle group to sway the supreme court to halt the recount process just as gore was pulling ahead. That's right, the recount was in full swing and everyone was happy until it looked like even after illeaglly denying hundreds of thousands of voters the right to stand up and be counted, he still may lose a rigged election. so he made some calls and had the election recount stopped. The supreme court issues a statement to the effect that the recount was being halted because it was causing controversy for the new president! Can you believe that, they felt that if the vote showed he lost the election then they would have trouble getting support so it's better not to let anyone know who got how many votes and just keep using your media to repeat your lies until everyone believes it.

When I do sound insulting towards the common american it's because of the frustration of knowing all this and still seeing you blindly follow the crook who took your democratic process hostage.

-eSmith.

http://www.edmheli.ca

01-22-2004 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

eSmith
Veteran
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

Now there's a joke, seeing how Canada was the ONLY country to complete it's objectives on D-Day maybe we could argue that the US may not have been successfull had we not paved the way. Also, keep in mind the wolf you reffer to was not much of a wolf by the time you reluctantly joined the effort of the ALLIES who won the war, it wasn't the US that won and again you used the beginning of the war that the rest of the world was involved in to make a profit from the british who were desperate to defend themselves.

You should be ashamed of yourself for speaking so boldly about something you know so little about.

-eSmith.

http://www.edmheli.ca

01-22-2004 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

nipps85
Heliman
Location: gurnee illinois

Quote
If by socialist you mean I want the needs of socety put ahead of the needs of an individual then yes, I guess I am.

Wait a minute... you are a socialist and you are griping about loss of freedom. You have no freedom if you happen to be the minority in a socialist country. The government knows what's best for you

01-22-2004 Over year old.

nipps85
Heliman
Location: gurnee illinois

Quote
we could argue that the US may not have been successfull had we not paved the way.

You don't really believe this do you

? Sounds like you are the one believing the propaganda the Socialists are feeding you. You would have probably preferred that the Russians had won the cold war right?

01-22-2004 Over year old.

eSmith
Veteran
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

You know, I don't disagree with that like you might think I would. I never considered myself a socialist in the tree hugger sense. I see things like doctors making under $100,000.00 a year and basketball players being paid $300,000.00 for a single game and I feel society has some misplaced priorites.

As for health care, I like publicly funded hospitals. your system works great if you never get sick but some people do get illnesses that they could never afford to treat under the burder of costs your system expects. We don't have to pay for treatment here in Canada and if you think that's bad I'm puzzled.

I, like most of you, want to be paid for my efforts and feel if I work harder than someone else, I'm entiltled to make more money. The problem is that we tend to paint over this with grey areas. "Sure, the garbage collector sweats more than I do in a day but I'm smarter and have skills he doesn't"

We strive everyday to work less and get paid more. we judge all members in society by this measure. your ranked into upper, middle and lower class simply based on your income.

On a level playing field this is fine however the field isn't level. There are people out there living off money that goes back generations and was made for instance in the slave trade unfairly. These decendants are still living the high life and I'm forced to work for a living all based on criminal activity essentally. Is this fair?

We won't pay a mechnic over $65.00 an hour for the solid skills required to fix our $100,000.00 BMW but will gladly fork over thousands to some artsy fartsy gallery to get the latest print from the guy they were all talking about at the dinner party the other night just so we can impress our friends. The quality and worth of the art work is completely subjectional. What I might think is valueable, you might think is crap, but if "Tad" say's so it must be true, Tad makes tons of money right. so he would know.

I know a lot of you don't agree with me, and I'm fine with that, my reaction today is because I'm getting tired of seeing threads everyday toting how great americans are and how much they do for us when if fact anything you do is for yourselves and yourselves only.

-eSmith.

http://www.edmheli.ca

01-22-2004 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

cloudmax
Senior Heliman
Location: Bay Ridge Brooklyn,NY

"Now there's a joke, seeing how Canada was the ONLY country to complete it's objectives on D-Day"

Hey,Maybe the fact that The US and England had to take TWO BEACHES EACH to Canadas ONE might have had something to do with it!

US: Utah and Omaha
Engand: Gold and Sword
Canada: Juno

And don't for get that the Canadians who landed on Juno Beach were part of the BRITISH Second Army, under the command of BRITISH Lt. General Miles Dempsey.

Adding some facts to your statements would be refreshing!

Your Canadian pride is great. But don't for a second think you or any other free country on the face of this earth would be living the way you do if it wasn't for the United States.
The US just existing has for years been a deterent to countries that wouldn't have thought twice about running rampent across free nations.
Watch it when you spit across that border.It could blow right back into your face.

01-22-2004 Over year old.

eSmith
Veteran
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

Let's talk about the cold war for a minute. What was the threat we were under? for those of you who are simply not going to go out and find out, the cold war was initiated by the US who wanted to exert control over western europe after the second world war. Russia, who fought much harder, suffered far greater losses and contributed far more to the defeat of the germans than the ameraricans did, didn't like the idea of a nuculer power setting up military bases right next door, especially after discovering that the supposed US allies were sending spy planes over russia daily.

now, you would have to understand how a government used fear to control and get approval for suppressing rights. read 1984 to get an understanding of the concept.

So, in order to increase military spending they needed to make the americian people think they were in imminent danger. The height of the farce came during the cuban missle crisis.
What happened there is Fidel came into power, looked around the country to see what his people needed and noticed that his citizens were grossly illiterate and were being taken advantage of by US buisnessmen who were swindling poor landowners out of thier property. This property was used for casinos and brothels mostly. This way, the american fat cats could live a life of vice and gross excess cheaply without thier wives finding out and then go back home and maintain a moral image.
Fidel simply said "enough" He took back the land in his country and threw out the pimps. Now these businessmen didn't take the loss of thier casino profits laying down, they went right to the american government who tried to bully Fidel into giving them back. Fidel was busy implementing an education system (which is now responsible for a 99.9% literacy rate among his countrymen.) and said Nope. The military got involved to add abit of pressure, and fidel picked up the phone and called russia and told them what was happening. The russians did send nukes to Cuba, but they were only intended to defend against american threats, not to threaten the american people because your all so great we're just jealous of your freedoms and abilities.

Come to think of it, are you really so gullible to buy that america has never done anything wrong and nobody has any right to take issue with your actions. and if they do it's ONLY because we don't want you to have freedom? I mean come on a sec here, that's like some disfunctional teen who never thinks anything is ever his fault and everything can be explained by pointing the finger at someone else.

Anyway, my fingers are getting tired of typing. flame away if you like but it won't effect me. I live for debate sometimes, today seems to be one of those day's. If you ask Seneca, it's my second day this week. I need a vacation. Anyone want to buy me a ticket to the vegas funfly, it falls on my birthday this year?

Oh, maybe not, ever heard of carnivore? It new software designed by the US military to scan the internet and billions of email messages a day looking for combinations of words that may be from someone "hostile to the bush league" so, "bush" and say the word "assassination" in the same message brings up a red flag. I'm guessing this thread will cause me border troubles so it's not worth going!

Yes, they will be able to scan YOUR messages without a warrant, go read the freedom act if you won't take my word for it.

-eSmith.

http://www.edmheli.ca

01-22-2004 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

augiep38
Heliman
Location: Charles Town, WV

edited for posterity......

01-22-2004 Over year old.

cloudmax
Senior Heliman
Location: Bay Ridge Brooklyn,NY

And the Soviet Union was walling in a city so the nice people who lived there couldn't be hurt by the nasty west?After WWII all bets were off as far as the USSR and the USA went.The USSR was going to try to scoop up as much of Europe as it could get away with. That was the threat. A threat that lasted until the USSR went belly up due to it's inability to keep up with the west. During the cold war CUBA=PUPPET FOR USSR. Castro got LOADS of cash for his part. None of which his people ever saw. But he's a great guy huh! You're a JOKE.
Nuclear missles were only there for defense against the west??HAHAHAA!!!! You lack any real understanding of the cold war and how it ended.Your logic is so backwards it's funny.
You're just another "too hip for the room" socialist who has all the answers and can't see all the people that are laughing at your twisted "facts".

01-22-2004 Over year old.

eSmith
Veteran
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

hey augiep38 I guess I win the debate with you, if the very best you can do and start name calling and slinging mud I guess we've reached the end of your knowledge on the subject.

Now, the reason the Cubans try to get into America isn't because Fidel opresses them, The Good ole USA win's again, it is America that has used warships for decades to prevent cuba from trading with other countries. This causes a state of poverty in the country. 80% of the wealth of the planet exists in the USA, it's right next door, why not swim over and see what you can latch onto, the worst that will happen is they will dump you back if/when they catch you. And if you steal or commit a crime while they are there, big deal, they have pretty much ever right to wage was against thier oppressors. I don't think they give a crap if you don't agree with them.

Guy's, all this other stuff aside, please get over this "the world exists because of us, you all owe the USA"

If the USA never existed at all the world would be a far different place, thats for sure, but I would argue the world would be a better place. your equality your so proud of doesn't exist. Money drives everything, your morals are comprimised because of this. To see a sick person laying there, and having the resources to help them, you refuse because the first thought in your head is compensation is sick. Anyone with this attitude would be doing the planet a favor by leaving.

It's like your heli is heading stright at someone and you kill them because you refused to dump it because it cost you too much. This is the american way now, If, as you put it, "you can't keep up" (referring to spending) it doesn't matter if your another nation like Russia or our own citizens, your toast to make room for more of us with 401k's.

Where is the morality in that? Right now, at this moment in time, GWB is the biggest threat to humanity because if he had his way he would build a better world for his corporate honchos on the backs of the common man. he would move more wealth from the lower and middle class up into the coffers of the coporate elite. and if he has to get in bed with the bin ladens to do it he will sell you out in a second, in FACT he already has.

-eSmith.

http://www.edmheli.ca

01-22-2004 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

brooksnb
Key Veteran
Location: Sussex , New Brunswick , Canada

eSmith...

Why dance on your soap box here ??
Be a proud Canadian...not a hateful one

And most of all keep in mind that if it were not for the might of the USA...you very well could be wearing a turbon ...don't ever think that our Canadian military could ever prevent it from happening.

Chill out and enjoy your freedom (to fly)

Never, under any circumstances, take a sleeping pill and a laxative on the same night.... Dennis

01-22-2004 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

cloudmax
Senior Heliman
Location: Bay Ridge Brooklyn,NY

Where did all that Soviet Union money that Fidel got go?
Why were his starving people not able to share in Fidels wealth?

"it is America that has used warships for decades to prevent cuba from trading with other countries."

Really??? And besides the Cuban missle crisis,when have we blockaded Cuba with warships????? You are some B.S. artist. The USA chooses not to trade with Cuba but the rest of the world is free to do as they please.
The truth of the matter here is ol' Fidel backed the wrong horse and is now paying the price.

The American dream has always been to use the resorces this country has to offer to make a better life for you and your family. This is NOT a guarantee! It is based on many things.One being luck. Some will make something of themselves others will not. Some will work hard and get nowhere others might do nothing and be very successful.This is not the norm though. The norm is that in America if you work hard at what you want to be and you add a little luck you have a good chance of achieving it.

Success and wealth is not something that is given out to everyone that lives here! It's trashtalk from jackass's like you that make weak people believe they are ENTITLED to this just because they live here.

You should not be penalized for achieving the American dream by having your country decide you now must pay for the people who didn't make something of their lives. If,as a wealthy American,you decide to be charitable...GREAT! Go to it! Be like evil Bill Gates and give billions of dollars to charity. We as Americans are taxed enough. The last thing I want to do is divy up the money I have left after taxes and dole it out to people who didn't quite make it. Keep that to your Socialist nightmare.

Do you know the taxes big corporations pay in the USA?
They are HUGE. I'm considered rich in this country and I pay HUGE amounts of money to the IRS. The last thing I need is some know nothing Socialist jackass saying I'm greedy! I bet if you had more then a few loonies to rub together you'd change your toon....Loony...tune...that's a joke son.

01-22-2004 Over year old.

the Wasp
rrProfessor
Location: Vt

if you want to really know what the US is all about, click here and see Drunk Monks reply !!

http://runryder.com/helicopter/t84435p1/

Jim

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

01-23-2004 Over year old.

Drunk Monk
rrProfessor
Location: Preston, UK

How's that relevant to this argument?

Stephen

I only open my mouth to change feet.....

01-23-2004 Over year old.

eSmith
Veteran
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

Cloudmax.

I don't think your a jackass. I don't think badly of you in any way, I only know that we cross paths out of a common intrest in heli's and I only respect that in the members here.

We're just debating a touchy subject for some people and it's bound to get hackles raised but I do not take it personally if someone points out facts about the people that run the country I live in. I may not always agree but to each his own. My motivation was not to create a bunch of ill will towards each other but was more a response to the comments we are seeing more frequently incorrectly praising the actions of a few greedy people in washington. I didn't start it but saying nothing is kinda like agreeing with it and as you may have noticed I don't.

Now, you say I'm full of BS. that means you think the things I'm saying are not true, fine, you want proof and I'm guessing you won't go get it yourself. so here you go.

History US vs Cuba

Hope the link works. also, look up the helms/burton law that grants the US right to seize US assets of any company from any country that trades with cuba or does business in cuba.

Please sir, do not question my credibilty without first getting YOUR facts correct. I can show MANY sources of documentation backing up what I say. The majority come from credible new sources you yourself would trust, the NY Times, CNN, BBC, etc....

I'm not stiring up trouble, I'm discussing a politicle situatition with what I expect would be informed, intelligent adults. If I did not think of the membership here in this way I would not take the time to write my horribly long responses.

I feel I am presenting my argument in a reasonable way to reasonable people and that the content of my messages will be discussed with merrit. If you don't agree with what I'm saying does it get to you because you think it's wrong, if so let's discuss it and look for information and reach the truth together, if your truth is more credible than mine then I will conceed on each point. I'm not too proud to admit I am wrong at times. If you don't like it because it is a nasty imiage of someone you respect and you resent it then don't you owe it to yourself to find out if it was true. If I am right then is this really the same president you thought you knew?

This "your either with us or against us" policy of the Bush administration is wrong. The world is not such a black and white place, they are grey areas in everything.

The 9-11 tragdey was horrible, nobody will discount the terrible act committed against the innocent people killed that day by very evil people. But these people that did it didn't wake up one morning and decide they didn't like you, there is history there. The US has a history of military influance in other countries. Many innocent civillians have died and are dying every day as a by-product of US global domination. As we speak, children are living in a hell of watching family members being killed by americans using american weapons. As we speak, the USA is breeding a new generation of what they will label terriosts, people who will only know american sponsered pain and suffering. To not think these people are fighting a war is simple denial.

Your leadership does a great job of keeping most of this from you and when a battle is fought on US soil and kills innocent US citizens, they also do a great job of spinning that off as if they are guilt free and it was an unmotivated attack by a few radicals for thier own reasons.

All of this is verifiable. None is BS. I'm a lot of imperfect things but I'm not a bs'er and I may be a jackass but not because of what I've simply repeated here. I didn't make any of it up.

Anyway, we've beaten this to death, I will give it up now and get down off the soapbox. It was lively and in the end I hope you will all accept that I'm still one of the guy's.

-eSmith.

http://www.edmheli.ca

01-23-2004 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

crosby
Heliman
Location: Iowa City, Iowa

On point...

... let's just wrench this subject back on point.

eSmith got this twisted into a national pride bent and I'd like to try to get it back to the silly Staples clerk. If a report came in that a 'suspicious person' had been inquiring about 'flight simulators' I would think the police would be remiss if they didn't follow it up. The Troopers were just doing their jobs. The Staples guy could have just mentioned this wierd customer to his boss, who called it in. I'm sure nobody wants to be the dork who helps the next terrorist fly into a building...

It's an extreme example to be sure, but does this really mean we don't enjoy freedom? The troopers knocked didn't they? They didn't bash down the door and smoke the whole family. eSmith, lighten up a bit, eh? We as a country have been makin' mistakes of policy long before either Bush rolled onto the scene. You make it sound like its the fault of the United States that life is unfair. Ranting about the rich getting money from an inheritance that is rooted in slavery and how the playing field isn't level...

Quote
I see things like doctors making under $100,000.00 a year and basketball players being paid $300,000.00 for a single game and I feel society has some misplaced priorites.

Are you saying that these things are unique to the US? That Bush is responsible for life being unfair?

Quote
What I might think is valueable, you might think is crap, but if "Tad" say's so it must be true, Tad makes tons of money right. so he would know.

Now you're wandering into consulting...again not unique to the US. In life, eSmith, if Tad spends effort and time becoming knowledgable on a subject, his opinion is worth more.
Oh, and I love this one;

Quote
Come to think of it, are you really so gullible to buy that america has never done anything wrong and nobody has any right to take issue with your actions. and if they do it's ONLY because we don't want you to have freedom?

Dude, we not only screw up, we do it huge! We also landed a guy on the moon when we wanted to. We also have somehow stumbled onto 80% of the worlds' wealth... I guess someone's doing something right! And we love our country! I don't ask your forgiveness for being proud of my country, warts and all.

Okay, so I gotta take off my shoes at the airports' security check and the government is using a supercomputer to sniff through my boring email for the words bomb/assassin/jahad. I guess it's a slippery slope, but these are not things I want to get upset about. What does bother me is someone saying the world would be better off without the United States. I just can't believe I read that.

Quote
As we speak, children are living in a hell of watching family members being killed by americans using american weapons.

Instead of being killed by their own countrymen using AK-47's...

Remember; It always seems darkest before going totally black.

01-23-2004 Over year old.

ez-flier
Veteran
Location: Vermont

Here we go....

Alright guys, c'mon...Flight sim to U.S. sucks!? WHAT THE H**L? Alright, we've all got pretty differnet views and morals....can we leave it at that for now? Lets get back to helis...thats what we like...yes, its fun to debate sometimes, but whats been written here isn't debate, its just a bunch of guys spitting on eachothers shoes...so knock it off. I think that the US is great...yup...i'm proud to be an American, and i'm proud of what we do. Granted, Canada takes alot of flak from alot of us down here, and yes, its okay for us to get some back....we can take it!

eSmith, i think...notice the "I THINK"...that you're crossing the line when you talk about the U.S. "maiming and murdering" citizens is WAY over the line, its pretty clear that you ONLY watch the news...the media isn't always right...but they're doing their job pretty d*mn well, because you and many others are all ears. The U.S. is NOT fighting a war against the citizens of foreign countries, we're fighting a war to uphold democracy, as hard as that may be to believe, i think its unfair for you to make judgements based on what you've heard.....i WILL, however, listen to you when you join the U.S. army, go to Iraq...serve, then tell your story, but until then, lets sit back, relax and enjoy life as it is. I'm pretty happy to live here, i get a good education and equal opportunity, and that owns. Its important for us all to remember that you get out of the system what you put into the system...that goes for alot of things, and it holds true to all of them. Sorry for ranting...but i haven't typed much in a while!

To each his own, i like helis, so do you....lets put our political views aside, at least while were here on RR, and talk helis...thats why I come here.
Aaron

Century Rep
Magnum Rep

01-23-2004 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

the Wasp
rrProfessor
Location: Vt

guys, I was just trying to relieve a little tension, with that photo of the babe, that's all !!

Jim

Jim
Buzz Buzz Buzz

01-23-2004 Over year old.

cloudmax
Senior Heliman
Location: Bay Ridge Brooklyn,NY

I'm done.

Keep spouting your X Files conspiracies and bias twists on history.
Thank god Canada has this clown.

01-23-2004 Over year old.

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