RunRyder - Does the X-Celll Gasser do 3D

rrTV-PHOTO

New HD TV

HOME rrTV-PHOTO GALLERIES MY GALLERY HELP-FAQ

myHOME PM pmRR MEMBERS 356 ONLINE 25 EVENTS SEARCH REGISTER START HERE

1 page

885 views

POST REPLY

Midland Helicopters	.	HeliProz	.	ZoomsHobbies
	.		.

Gasser Model RC Helicopters > Does the X-Celll Gasser do 3D

Peter G
Senior Heliman
Location: Runcorn, Cheshire, UK

I know there is a new Fury Gasser coming out, but how long do we have to wait. My lhs has the 1005 in stock, but is it 3D capable and is the Fury gasser going to be much different?
Any help on this will be appreciated.
Peter G

12-30-2003 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

rbort
Elite Veteran
Location: Franklin, MA - U.S.A.

Sure it will

Hi Peter:

Sure it will do 3D. I've had my 1005 kit since 1997 and have been flying it 3d for quite some time now -- 1063 flights to be exact. The stock motor was not so powerful and would eventually start to bog after the third tumble, so I upgraded mine after about 2 seasons to the Hanson modified g23 motor. This motor rocks the machine around and it can tumble all day without bogging down.

Nowadays the new 231 motor is out and I hear it is about the same power if not better than the modified g23 Hanson motor. Basically to answer your question the 1005 kit will do the 3d stuff and in general its all in the way you power it. If your local hobby shop has the 1005 kit with the new 231 motor, then that would be a good choice. The fury is going to be different in the sense of design, being CCPM, but other than that I think the total weight will be close. Mine weighs in at 12 lbs with no fuel. If you want to see a movie of it flying, please go to this runryder link below and scroll down the page where you will see a link to another site. On that site, my gasser video is just below the civilian airliner model.

http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/...t=raja+does+gas

-=>Raja.

1005 Xcell Gas, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator
Spectra-g, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator

12-30-2003 Over year old.

jb_turner
Elite Veteran
Location: USA

What head speed are you getting on your Hanson g-23 without shaking?. I find that with my XL Gas with Hanson mod and stock muffler the heli loves a head speed of 1450 if I bump it up to lets say 1600 -1650 the heli is shaking. I do not see it as a balance issue because she is dead smooth at 1450. I am running 6oz of yamalube to the gallon of 89 octane.

12-31-2003 Over year old.

rbort
Elite Veteran
Location: Franklin, MA - U.S.A.

I can run any speed with no shakes

How long have you had your heli? Have you crashed it at all? If so check your upper main frames. They may have a crack in them or may be delaminating along the length. That will cause the heli to shake at higher head speeds.

I've had my heli for a very long time, flown it over 1k flights and recently just replaced my upper frames when I noticed a hairline split in one of them near the main shaft. That was making my main shaft more flexible (if you grab the head you can move it left to right more so than a heli with non-split frames) and that made my heli shake at rpms above 1500 like you say. Had this problem earlier this year, and took me several attempts before figuring it out.

Your heli should turn up to 1700 with no shakes whatsoever. If not, then you may have a cracked frame, or maybe something is out of balance.

I use 4oz of Yamalube for each gallon of 87 octane. I think 6oz is too much but not the cause of your shakes as I used to run 6oz, worked down to 5 and now on 4oz.

Oh yeah, a test for you if you are comfortable doing it. Take the heli up to 500 feet and do a high descent speed auto. Does the heli shake when the rotor speed increases from the descent -- most notably seen as you are approaching the ground and flaring to start burning off the speed and rotor speed with more pitch. If it shakes, then look at the frames -- the engine and drive train are idle and not doing anything, so you just eliminated 50% of it. Look at the frames, main shaft, main axle and blades. Tail rotor is out of it too as its not even spinning... A good test indeed!

-=>Raja.

1005 Xcell Gas, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator
Spectra-g, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator

12-31-2003 Over year old.

rcrebel
Senior Heliman
Location: Michigan

What headspeed are you running on the Xcell gasser for smooth 3D type flight? Does it bog down at your chosen headspeed?

How well does it auto without a driven tail? Is the driven tail necessary for any reason?

rcrebel

12-31-2003 Over year old.

rbort
Elite Veteran
Location: Franklin, MA - U.S.A.

1600 most of the time

I run 1600 while I do most of my 3d stuff. When I need that little extra speed I turn up to 1700. The way I see it, if I need it, then I turn it, otherwise if it will do it at 1600, why turn it up?

For example, you can fly around inverted, do loops, rolls, pirouettes, funnels, scallops, etc all at 1600. Then you can go to 1700 to gain some more forward speed for longer verticals, faster rolls, or faster maneuvering all around. Depends on your mood.

With the hanson motor, or the new g231, it doesn't bog down in most manuevers. If you pull full cyclic and full pitch (pos or negative) then it will bog down a bit, but other than that, it maintains rotor speed. I can climb at full throttle full pitch at 1700 rpms and not bog down. The old standard g23 used to bog down after performing my third tumble. The hanson motor can do them indefinately.

The only reason for a driven tail is autorotation aerobatics. If you don't do them, then you dont need a driven tail. I tried them, did some successful rolls on the way down during an autorotation. Then I tried to do an inverted auto with no practice anywhere and I ended up getting confused and crashed. Since then I don't do autorotation aerobatics though I do do many autorotations. I can kill the engine, fly down (not fall) like a deadstick biplane and go from one end of the field to the other end, execute a 180 degree flying turn, and return to land at my feet at mid field. As long as you keep the forward speed up, you can turn like an airplane and the tail will weathervane behind you. People at the field as usually impressed by this auto as it seems to last forever and the gasser seems to hang in there with no power even at the bottom of the approach. Gets heads turned as they head the engine go silent and then they have to wait 20 seconds literally before the bird is on the ground.

-=>Raja.

1005 Xcell Gas, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator
Spectra-g, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator

12-31-2003 Over year old.

rcrebel
Senior Heliman
Location: Michigan

Thanks for the info Raja. I tried to view your video, but the link doesn't work. I went to Augusto's site, but couldn't find where he may have your video listed.

12-31-2003 Over year old.

rbort
Elite Veteran
Location: Franklin, MA - U.S.A.

Looks like the link is down

I just went to Augusto's site too and when I click on the link it doesn't work...hmmm. Well, I have the video here but its 8MB. The only way I can think of to get it to you is via MSN doing a file transfer as my email program will not let me attach something bigger than 2MB. Do you have an MSN ID?

-=>Raja.

1005 Xcell Gas, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator
Spectra-g, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator

12-31-2003 Over year old.

jb_turner
Elite Veteran
Location: USA

"How long have you had your heli? Have you crashed it at all? If so check your upper main frames. They may have a crack in them or may be delaminating along the length. That will cause the heli to shake at higher head speeds."

I purchased it new in 97 and recd Hanson mod same time. I have crashed it twice but the shakes have been there before and after the crashes. It loves the 1450- 1475 head speed > rock solid < but anything like 1600 shakes a bit too much for me (the shaking is more of a high speed shake with body and skids motor related). I have also checked the integrity of the heli as you have suggested. I had called MA in the past and was told that that motor likes 1450 - 1475 head speed but I failed to ask them in detail as to why. As far as the auto test I shall do that this weekend. I am not understanding why it would shake more than the recomended rpms? if somthing is bent or out of alignment I should notice that at 1450 head speed right?.

Hanson G23
33" boom
NHP 710's
NHP 105's
Driven tail
0848
GV1
Stator Gator sensor

Even as stock it did not like to go over 1450 rpm. You did bring up the point of fuel / oil.. as I stated I run 6oz Yamalube to the gallon but I will try 4oz with 87 octane and new plug.

I will let yas know!!!! Thanks...

12-31-2003 Over year old.

jb_turner
Elite Veteran
Location: USA

Agusto Heli website:

http://www.augustoheli.com/videostu...ive/default.asp

12-31-2003 Over year old.

rbort
Elite Veteran
Location: Franklin, MA - U.S.A.

Thanks for the link jb_turner!!

Rc-rebel:

Perfect! Jb-Turner found the link for us! Go to Miscellaneous, the scroll about 80% down. My video is just after the civilian jet! Enjoy!!

Jb-Turner:

Something it wrong. It shouldn't shake that much. It if shake more with more rpms, then it sounds like my broken frame issue. Oh yeah, by the way, when I went to replace the top frames I found that the two black spacers part number 106-76 were split in half too (when I split the frames, those studs split apart). Probably should just check parts like this. Mine the frames on the whole machine were all original and have flown 1000 flights and survived the whole time, so they were just old and worn out I guess, and/or maybe even damaged on the last crash.

Anyway, first things first fix your fuel issue. Then adjust your carb if you have to so it runs smooth, and then if the engine is running smooth but the heli shakes then its something else. Can you send me a close in video of the heli shaking in a hover? Like hover it at 1450 rock solid, then just switch the gv-1 to 1600 and hover some more, and then switch it to 1700 and hover some more. Send me a video clip so I can see how it is shaking at different rpms.

Try the autorotation test, if it shakes on the way down (you won't see it until you are hovering for a landing), let me know too. In that case its rotor induced.

"The shakes are high speed related with body and skids" sounds exactly like my problem with the cracked upper frames. Look at them again, very carefully. Try to flex the head left and right and look at the top of the frames to see if a crack or split shows up. Mine didn't show until I flexed the head.

Balance your blades with Koll Rotor pro balancer to eliminate them as a possible problem. They should be balance total weight and spanwise CG, don't worry about the chordwise CG. When you balance your blades, never put any tape on the tips of the blades, only at the root side as they tips are your flying blades and you don't want to spoil the airflow there. So hang them on the balancer, add weight to the blade that needs it on the root side (on the underside) to match the other, and then add weight to the other blade on the spanwise CG of the blade (on the underside). The balancer has a notch so you can mark the spanwise CG of each blade so you will know where to add the weight and not screw up the spanwise CG in the efforts of matching the total weight.

Let me know how you make out and send me a shakes video for more assistance!

-=>Raja.

1005 Xcell Gas, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator
Spectra-g, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator

12-31-2003 Over year old.

ImRich
Veteran
Location: Derry, NH USA

Hi Raja!

Happy New Year!! I hope you've been well! My girlfriend gave me a Raptor 50 v2 3D as a gift, so now I have a medium glow ship to add to the 'fleet'. I guess I'll have to sell my Shuttle now.

Just to add what Raja is saying, I have the Same Gas X-Cell, but I have the new Z-231 engine, NOT the Hanson modified engine.

I'm glad you found the video. I had fun making that video for Raja. The quality could have been a lot better, but I made it with my still camera. Raja was flying when I remembered that my still camera had a 'movie mode', so I asked Raja if he minded if I try it on the first time while he flew. You can see the result of a little helpfull editing.

My ship is smooth, no shakes and I run the same head speeds as Raja. Raja flew my ship and can comment on that as well.

I previously had the Z-230 engine and that one did not shake either.

I do spend a lot of time getting all my spinning parts balanced. I have an electronic gram scale which can display down to 0.01 of a gram. I usually get parts to equal each other within 0.01g.

Oh, don't believe people when they tell you that you do not have to balance carbon or glass blades. I find they are very out of balance. My wood blades were better balanced (by me) than the Carbon blades were out of the box. I'm not saying that carbon blades are very out and they certainly are closer than any wood blade could hope to be 'out of the box'.

---
Rich

12-31-2003 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

rbort
Elite Veteran
Location: Franklin, MA - U.S.A.

Congrats on the new Santa gift!

Hey Rich!

Congrats on the new Rappy! Also nice to get another toy for Xmas!

We need to hook up sometime..its been a while! I guess winter is here but then again we are getting those 40's days lately so I've been out for a few flights this past week! Been flying much? I'm still planning to drop into the NH field someday and catch a few with you, just haven't been up that way. Maybe on a good day we can arrange to meet!

Thanks again for making that video, many people ask to see how the thing flies and I don't have much footage myself. It takes another to film while you fly, and having you there was great!

-=>Raja.

1005 Xcell Gas, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator
Spectra-g, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator

12-31-2003 Over year old.

ImRich
Veteran
Location: Derry, NH USA

Hi Raja,

Yes, we do need to get together again. The next time I'll bring my 'real' video camera and we can make a good quality video for you.

I'm still spending a lot of time trying to clean my basement so I can make room to build the rappy.

I haven't been flying for a while now. I have to start practicing on the simulator again.

Stop by our field anytime. You can always visit www.newhampshireflyingtigers.org to get directions if you forget how to get there.

Happy New Year!!

---
Rich

01-01-2004 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

jb_turner
Elite Veteran
Location: USA

rbort,

The motor runs smooth at 1450 but I will listen more closely at 1600 rpm. As far as getting a video probably so will see. I have today and Sat off so I will have more time to commit to this issue.

01-01-2004 Over year old.

1 page

885 views

POST REPLY

HeliHobby	.	Ron’s HeliProz South	.	Century Helicopter
	.		.

Gasser Model RC Helicopters > Does the X-Celll Gasser do 3D

PRINT TOPIC

Advertisers

Subscribe to This Topic