RunRyder - Bergen or X-cell gasser?

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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > Bergen or X-cell gasser?

rcrebel
Senior Heliman
Location: Michigan

What are the main differences between the Bergen and Xcell gasser. I've been researching them (and yes, I used the search function

), and I can't quite figure out which of the two is the "best bang for the buck". The Bergen seems quite pricey as compared to the Xcell.

If I purchase a Bergen and then add the cost of the torque tube drive tail, front trans. support and fiberglass canopy, I'm well over the cost of an Xcell. I believe the Xcell comes standard with the above mentioned features, correct?

Anyone know the best bang here? It's my first gasser and I want to make the right choice. I do want to perform 3D such as piro flips, funnels, tic tocs and inverted flight. Are either machine up to that type of flying with the G231PUH engine?

Looking for all the input I can accumulate.
Thanks and Happy Holidays!!
rcrebel

12-23-2003 Over year old.

Glenn in Den
Key Veteran
Location: Longmont, Colorado area

Best bang is probably going to be the Predator Gasser. I've heard a rumor that it's going to cost between $1000 and $1100 and will include all upgrades, the good PUH G23 or (231, whatever it takes) engine and even carbon BLADES!!!

Now some hard core types might start the old brand war and quality blah, blah, blah but it's going to be hard to argue down six hundred bucks worth.

Glenn.

I'm not really an R/C pilot, I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night!

12-23-2003 Over year old.

rcrebel
Senior Heliman
Location: Michigan

That sounds like a great deal on the Pgasser. I for one have never owned a Century thats why it was not among my top choices. However, I've never owned a Bergen before either. I guess I'm just judging Century by their past history - shame on me.

Also, I've never been a fan of eCCPM machines, that is the main reason I was choosing between the Bergen and the X-cell.

Hope to hear more good comments. I want to give a gasser a try, so I want to start off right.

rcrebel

12-23-2003 Over year old.

AGRAV8
rrProfessor
Location: Mosquito Coast......Houston Texas

I agree

with the Gentleman from Colorado. I have owned an xcell gasser, with a modified engine to make more power. A nice machine, to be sure....but some of the spares prices was a bit rich for my blood. I have my sights on a predator gasser with a g-26 engine. It shouldn't be long before I have it. plenty of power too...for the above stuff you mentioned. I will certainly be happy with the price and features. The eCCPM is not a big deal, really....MOST of the top end machines will have that feature in the future.
I HAVE seen a P-Gasser in person, and its performance was VERY promising.
ANY of the machines mentioned so far would NOT be a bad decision. MY choice will be the Predator. I'm SURE others will express their opinions.

James

12-23-2003 Over year old.

helidog
Senior Heliman
Location: usa

I haven’t owned a Bergen Or a P-max
I have seen how the 90 P-MAX performs and it’s very well in that department.
I have spoke with owners of the P-max with very good feedback from all
If the P-max Gasser is anything like the P-max 90 it will be a very good choice.
I am sure Century had learned a few things with the P-max 90 and will implement them changes for the gasser.

Bergen is also a good unit from what I understand from others that own them
I personally fly a CCPM modified X-CELL GASSER.
With all of the above helicopters I can tell you that there is not a one that has NOT had issues and growing pains.

I believe for anyone to make an honest assessment on the gassers that are on the market today you will have to look at a few things. Kit Price, reliability, parts replacement price,
PERFORMANCE.
Ask yourself how much you are willing to spend for performance and how much do you gain for 300 to 600 dollars. Cash is Cash I can spend it on some other bling bling for the other helis or something that I might need for the gasser. So for me it’s a simple process of elimination. Get the best performance at the cheapest price and the lowest cost for parts replacement for the bad days.

This is if you have no money.

If money is no problem buy them all.

12-23-2003 Over year old.

Flying Tivo
Veteran
Location: Monterrey,NL,Mexico

Vario Benzine

I own a vario benzine, and the ccpm frames from air star are the most simple setup i have ever come across. I know that they are a little on the high end but the quality is worth it. You have to bare in mind that parts could take a week or two to arrive in case of a crash. CCPM is a big deal for me for two main reasons: First, ease of setup, bolt the servos and one single pushrod to the swashplate, and second, if it is on a benzine using high torque digital servos, you will get the power right to the swashplate. A third one but not major is if you are going to scale you have plenty of room on the cokpit for detailing. All gassers are based on zenoha engines either the G23 or the new G26, which will fit any gasser. Varios muffler system is the nicest and sounds so cool.

There are many other details for which I chose Vario, but then it would be bragging

If life throws at you lemons......Squirt some lemon juice in the eye of your enemy!!!!

12-24-2003 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

v22chap
Veteran
Location: Howe, Indiana

I have not owned a pred or vario but I have had two Bergens and they really rock.They are solid with no interactions on the mixing and they survive very well .I saw Malorie nose hers in at IRCHA and she bent the flybar around and checked things over and installed new blades and was back out flying in 2 hrs or so.They may be a little more pricey than the pred ,,but they have a whole lot more time on them and they fly great right out of the box with no mods needed,,,, unlike a few others we know of.You won't be updating this and that and trying this to get it to fly right as Larry and Chris have this bird figured out and they can and will tell you over the phone ,email ,or in person exactly how to set it up to fly the best and no trying this or that to get it to work..... it works great right now and has for many yrs.
Get a Bergen you won't be sorry.
I have had pretty good service from Century on minor stuff ,,, but the service I get from Bergen far out does whats coming from Century right now.Another thing you will get with a Bergen is personal modifications ,,,like if you need a longer main shaft for scale or etc. Try that at Century or Vario.

Good luck and have fun
Larry

Larry C ----------Bergen R/C helicopters

12-24-2003 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

Glenn in Den
Key Veteran
Location: Longmont, Colorado area

Apples to apples, please!

First off, I believe everything everyone is saying about the Bergens. I have enough confidence in them to consider buying one.

However, I've heard many people say (about the Intrepid) "right out of the box" but that is not true. V22, do you have the transmission upgrade? What about the elevator yoke and torque tube? I would bet you have all 3 of those. Why? Because Larry himself URGED me to get them. Yes, technically it will fly right out of the box, and it will fly great, I'm sure. But who amongst you (Intrepid owners) is actually doing that?

When you add up the 3 upgrades I mentioned above, which are really considered mandatory by most everyone, and add decent blades, you are up to $1600 to $1700. That's not even taking into consideration the stock Bergen canopy, which many people seem to hate. I have no idea how much the better canopy is, why you would need it or what it costs in time or trouble to paint it but that needs to be considered too.

The Predator (now keep in mind I'm not biased - I don't own either and my only other ship is a Raptor 50) truly needs no upgrades. It even comes with very good carbon blades. It will supposedly not be priced over $1100 with the 231 engine. There is a TRUE $600 difference.

When you compare the Pred to the stock Berg, sure, on paper it looks great. I would buy the proven Bergen in a heartbeat if that were truly the case . . . .but it is not. The torque tube, tranny and yoke upgrades should be standard because Larry himself told me they are virtually necessary and everyone seems to have them.

If the value were equal, I would probably buy the Bergen because of it's track record and I would prefer the G10 material over the aluminum . . . and as much as CCPM intrigues me, I know I'd have less problems with conventional mixing. In fact, I would probably pay $100 more for the Bergen (over the Predator price) if everything, including the canopy, was "apples to apples" equal.

Glenn.

I'm not really an R/C pilot, I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night!

12-24-2003 Over year old.

rbort
Elite Veteran
Location: Franklin, MA - U.S.A.

I vote for the Xcell

Personally I would vote for the Xcell machine, but then again look around your field and see what others are flying in case you need some support or someone to look over your machine.

With the Xcell, you can buy it just about anywhere on the net and also at some local hobby shops. With the Bergen you need to buy everything direct from Bergen as it is not sold anywhere else that I know of even though its advertised heavily especially around here and from their fliers here and on other boards as well.

Good luck and enjoy whatever you decide!

-=>Raja.

1005 Xcell Gas, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator
Spectra-g, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator

12-24-2003 Over year old.

Dr.Tim
Key Veteran
Location: Mojave Desert

I have owned Both! I prefer the BERGEN over Excell 's Gasser .. They Both have thier good points but, if you start looking around at the Excell gassers you will find "Bergen Fans' , Bergen this and Bergen that to make the excell fly better .. I think if Larry Bergen made after market parts for excell that he found ways to make it better. He Did just that when he came out with the Intrepid line of helicopters ... very precise and Smooth control with a Rock Solid G10 Frame .. These helicopters have been flying for a long time and in that amount of time they have only made 3 upgrades! You Don't need those upgrades to fly this helo but if your doing hard 3D then I would go with the upgraded Tail Transmission ... Torque Tube is a must.

From Simple minds come simple ideas! Starwood Models, Approach Engineering

12-24-2003 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

v22chap
Veteran
Location: Howe, Indiana

Glenn
The first Bergen I flew "STOCK" for over 2yrs.I was doing everything I wanted to do with it including a rolling circle.It was by the way a used machine from Jeff Rankin and you probably know how a factory sponsored pilot flys a bird.I sold it to a friend and it is still fly today.Wish I still had it,,, but I had to have the "UPGRADES ,, shinny pretty ,fancy stuff "
The next one was bought off the net and it had all the up grades plus a hanson modified engine on it. Now I can't do my rolling circles even after 2yrs of trying different setups...... go figure !!!!

Quote
It will supposedly not be priced over $1100 with the 231 engine. There is a TRUE $600 difference.

Here in lies the biggest problem I see with the pred gasser.How many times have we all been told by a company ,,hang on it will be out in June and will cost XXXXX of dollars. Only to wait 8 months and pay way more than we were lead to believe.Or worst yet get the machine and find that they have found it needs this and this updated to fly right or this isn't right you need to change this to be up to the current product specs .I am sick and tired of being companies guinea pig.

P.S. If I am not mistaken Bergens come with the 231 now also or atleast just a small difference fee.

I will gladly pay more for a proven concept that has been around for awhile and has a good track record. Let others be the guinea pigs -- I have done my share of testing for these companies and learned the hard way.

As far as the blades go I count it a blessing to not have to pay for blades that I may or may not want .I would rather have it come with out the blades and be able to buy the ones I want.Which is what most companies are doing now.

The fiberglass canopy is $20.00 more than the lexan one (thats going to break the bank ) but does not make the bird fly any better.It is the gadet ,,,gotta have the pretty , shinny , what everybody else has effect that makes people want the fiberglass one .It is what makes the american economy what it is--- not that I agree with it either ,I guess just call me an old cranky man.

I would push upgrades too ,,if I owned a company.The fact is for years before the upgrades Bergens flew and flew well.Now that guys like to flip flop around like drunken sailors ,,,,yes a few reasonably priced upgrades are needed to make it hold up to that punishment --- not a whole new designed machine.

What other manufacture has a bird that is good enough to keep the same design for more than 4 yrs and bold enough to say no to the "PASSING trends "and not be costing me more money to stay up with the Jones!!!????
Now with saying all that I will tell you what my son would say... now Dad if every one would have that opinion we all would still be flying the Dubro 505 whirley bird and yes I guess he is right ,,,,,,,,, but it still burns me how some of these companies are constantly changing their design .I can't even order parts from this one company cause I haven't keep up with the upgrades enough to know if it will work with my machine or not.

Sorry this is getting long ,so I will get off my soap box now and go wait for the post to start.
Just my 2 cents.
Larry

Larry C ----------Bergen R/C helicopters

12-24-2003 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

xcellgasman101
Elite Veteran
Location: WOODWARD, OKLA....

Xcell the only way to go

Well Dr. Tim, I would have to disagree with you... I'm flying two Xcell gassers, with nothing but Xcell parts... I 3D them with no trouble.. My first gasser is one of Xcell first kits. The second one is a newer one. both fly great. The first on is basically stock, with the old G23, it takes the spacers to fit the frame.. The second on is basically a pre99SE gasser. AWSOME!!!!!!!!! I would put either one up againest a bergen or predotor.... The price is a little expenceneive, but what gasser isn't... Xcell has been around a long time, you can get parts anywhere.... In fact I learned to fly, flying a gasser..... Just like everyone else has stated you are going to get differant ideas from just about anyone that you ask,, But rest asured. A XCELL doesn't need any Bergen parts to make them fly better....... IMHO..................

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com

12-25-2003 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

helidog
Senior Heliman
Location: usa

rcrebel

as you can see you will have many to look into when getting a gasser

Try this. write down the top helis that you would like.

put them in a hat and pull out one and order it.

12-25-2003 Over year old.

KRUZIN
Heliman
Location: Right now," the computer"

Or if you want the absolute best, go with Vario's Benzin 8300C the best of both worlds. Maga power, 3D aerobatics and good for scale flying. One thing to remember that alot of people don't realize is that the benzin is designed to fly in a fuselage which adds alot of weight with awsome performance (movies etc.) Flys even better pod and boom..

12-25-2003 Over year old.

rbort
Elite Veteran
Location: Franklin, MA - U.S.A.

Hey Mike:

Care to comment on why you sold all your Bergen Twins cheap and moved on to another platform? How was your experience with the reliability of those machines? I'm sure there are many possible answers, but I was just curious...

-=>Raja.

1005 Xcell Gas, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator
Spectra-g, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator

12-26-2003 Over year old.

v22chap
Veteran
Location: Howe, Indiana

I also happen to know that Larry has something else for camera ships in the drawing stages. If it works out in the next couple yrs like we think ,,,, look out market here comes Bergen again.

Larry

Larry C ----------Bergen R/C helicopters

12-26-2003 Over year old.

HOMEPAGE

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