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Futaba-RC . A Main Hobbies . Boca Bearings

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Got Jet Fuel? Turbine Helicopters > Comanche: where?
 
 
Elliot
Heliman
Location: Germany

Hi Optikaman,

the vario unit including the 90° aluminium gear box and the drive shaft and the speed up gear box for the jet cat mechs is about 750,- USD and not 300....., so the difference is not too much, regarding the fact that our unit is all over manufactured from aluminium and contains about 120 parts and the fact that the vario unit simply doesn`t work with helicopters which have about 2,40 meters of rotordiameter. Wait for a vario unit which will fit to those big ships and than you might compare the prices. I am sure it will not be available for our price....just easy, or not ?

Elliot
01-31-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
optikaman
Veteran
Location: EnglishTown N.J.

Elliot:
I don't know where you get your prices from but the complete fenneston tail unit and speed up gear unit cost 660.00 usd and you get the tail drive shaft and bearings with the fuse. What comes with your unit? As stated in the add it is just the fenneston unit at 980 euros = 1,213.63 usd.
So that is twice the price of a complete vario fenneston tail drive assembly. And if you change the size of the blades on the fenneston it will work on larger applications. The part count means nothing to me other than a more expensive repair cost and a complicated system.

Prove to us that your system is far superior and it has a higher efficiency rating than the vario unit and that is what will sell it........

I look forward to your response
Alan...
01-31-2004 Over year old.
 
 
heliVoY
Veteran
Location: NJ

Quote 
I look forward to your response



you probably wont get one , i never got a response back from him after inquiring on the pricing of some big 3m helis either .....



Wojtek
02-01-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Elliot
Heliman
Location: Germany

Hi Optikaman !

I think the difference regarding the prices (750,- USD and 660,- USD) is caused by the german VAT which is 16%. You probably do not have to pay VAT in the States....lucky man !

The prices shown on the PDF file do as well contain 16% VAT.
The unit is absolutely complete including everything you need to run it. Even carbon blades will be available to avoid any problems regarding the AMA.

You will find the main difference between both units at the bladegrips and the blade stearing. The main problem of all fenestrons is (including the real ones) that you need extrem power to stear them. The more head speed you fly the more speed and torque you need on the fenestron. If you let the VARIO unit go up to 12.000 rpm you will realize, that the blades will not be stearable any more, because of extrem high centrifugal force and missing pressurebearings. To support the servo we also installed some propeller moment weights, which also reduce the force. Some more technical improvements...too much to talk about here

The last thing is that we have not massproduction, therefor we are simply not able to compete with prices of Vario, Graupner, Robbe or others. Sure the fan would be much cheaper if we would let the CNC shop do about 200 or 300 units...., but who should buy 300 EC120, even if they might be 20% less ?

We have quality products, but we also have reasonable prices compared to other small producers.

@ Wojtek: how much PM`s and E-mails did we exchange regarding the 3M helis ? 10 or more ? So which info did you miss ? I sent you pics of all 3M helis which are available ...I also translated quotations of other manufactures from germany for you...so please do not tell you haven`t heard anything

Elliot
02-01-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
heliVoY
Veteran
Location: NJ

Eliot, i still never got a complete price for you for Martin's 212 and jet ranger, and a set of your mechanics with the 14mm shaft .. You did give me a price, but that was only for a ready built and asembled heli .. if you can send me the pricing, i am still interested ( the vario JetRanger exhaust is absolutely nasty looking, so im still open to other options ... )



Wojtek
02-01-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Elliot
Heliman
Location: Germany

Hi Wojtek !

So a simple misunderstanding. I will let you have the prices tomorrow by mail.

Elliot
02-01-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
ComancheDriver
Senior Heliman
Location: Afghanistan - Operation Enduring Freedom

Hi Elliot:
I have a couple questons:
1. Is your Fenestron system design for Jakadofsky mechanics or both?
2. When will the fibre-glass blades be available per AMA rules?
3. What is the cost for extra/replacement blades and do you have a US distributor for warranty issues?
4. Clarify cost and whats included again, please.

As you know, my 1:5th or 1:6th scale Comanche needs a larger Fenestron and speed-up gear - Vario's is way too small. And some other issues resolved.

Thanks,

Best regards
ComancheDriver

Live Fast... Fly Fast... .
02-02-2004 Over year old.
 
 
vertolfan
Senior Heliman
Location: Bloomington, Illinois

Hey Commanche Driver. Are you going to buy an EC120 just to get the Fenestron unit? Man I wish I had some people's hobby budgets!
02-02-2004 Over year old.
 
 
ComancheDriver
Senior Heliman
Location: Afghanistan - Operation Enduring Freedom

When they said, show me the money two for one wasn't the deal.... Besides, don't like the EC-120 anyway.

Maybe, I'll wait-n-see if Elliot decides to make his Fenetron available as separate kit.
Has anyone seen the specs or know the MTBF? What about servicing and overhaul repairs?


ComancheDriver

Live Fast... Fly Fast... .
02-02-2004 Over year old.
 
 
optikaman
Veteran
Location: EnglishTown N.J.

ComancheDriver based on Elliot’s description of the unit and his acknowledgement that only a few units will be manufactured I would not get one. You may have problems with parts availability. I can already see a 3 month waiting list for replacement parts......

Hell look at the S76 it has been in production for over a year and it is still not available and there was a price increase as well...

Why don't we wait two or three years and let them provide us with real world statistics.

Alan...
02-02-2004 Over year old.
 
 
ComancheDriver
Senior Heliman
Location: Afghanistan - Operation Enduring Freedom

Infor is greatly appreciated and will be looking at all options.

ComancheDriver

Live Fast... Fly Fast... .
02-04-2004 Over year old.
 
 
heliVoY
Veteran
Location: NJ

Quote 
I will let you have the prices tomorrow by mail.




?????????????




Wojtek
02-10-2004 Over year old.
 
 
ComancheDriver
Senior Heliman
Location: Afghanistan - Operation Enduring Freedom

Wojtek,

Did you not get the pricing as agreed..........?

Live Fast... Fly Fast... .
02-10-2004 Over year old.
 
 
optikaman
Veteran
Location: EnglishTown N.J.

Price sheet?

Elliot or Lars, what ever your real name is why have you not sent the prices to Wojtek? Whats up man are they top secret?????? do we need clearence to get them?

Post the prices here...........
and where the hell is the S76! will we ever see it and please don't advertise a product 18 months in advance unless you can achive that goal. I now see that there is no date for availability (T.B.A.) and no price now (T.B.A.) on V-EAST web site and your site has a release date of spring 2005.......





Alan...
02-10-2004 Over year old.
 
 
Elliot
Heliman
Location: Germany

Hi Optikaman,

the S76 has been announced by V-East long before we got in contact with them. We might take over the production to get this model finished, but this would probably take a while a we have to start from scratch again.
Regarding the prices of the big ones, I cannot post them here due to the rules for manufactures and vendors. Those models are produced by a one man show in Austria and it is simply not easy to get the single prices as they are offered mainly as combos including mechanics, engines, turbines, rotorheads etc.... So simply ask Martin Söllner himself to get clearence. He produces the big Jet Ranger and the UH 1D. But as I understand, the UH 1D is out of production in the moment as he would like to renew the moulds.

Martin`s Big Scale Helis

Have a nice day,

Elliot

PS: Elliot is my nickname and it is the german phonetic code for the first letters of my first names [el:jot] Lars-Jürgen
02-10-2004 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
ComancheDriver
Senior Heliman
Location: Afghanistan - Operation Enduring Freedom

Thanks Optikama,

Good things "will have to come later" and waiting for the right hardware and equipment is nothing new.............
Legally and ethnically, use of metal blades or any unapproved equipment isn't going to happen - that's a no-go.

Comanche will remain R&D longer than expected.


ComancheDriver

Live Fast... Fly Fast... .
02-11-2004 Over year old.
 
 
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Got Jet Fuel? Turbine Helicopters > Comanche: where?
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