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Fast Lad Performance . Ace Hobby . Esprit Model

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Main Discussion > CCPM: P-mixes or ATVs
 
 
KC
Elite Veteran
Location: WA

"In other words, if you have to use sub trim on new servos when building a Fury using the Futaba wheels, you made a mistake"

are you saying that I don't know how to set up a heli?

I'm trying to help you, after all you didnt even know how to use a high point balancer until last week. Now you are lecturing everyone on everything in the whole forum

yawn.
12-08-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Vinnie
Senior Heliman
Location: Miami Beach, Florida

no

There are things I know and things I don't, and after having installed over 20 Futaba servos specifically into Furys it was always possible from trying all possible splines to get it to exactly 90 degrees (or in the case of the elevator servo on the tempest, at the 92.5 degree position, which I've done 4 times now).

Now what are you saying that I just got lucky all those times? I also know that for my previous first 8 Futaba servo installations (2 Furys), it was NOT possible to get exactly 90 degrees but for every one of those cases I later found the reason (not choosing the right spline, forgetting to remove trim, not disabling certain features, forgetting to reverse certain servos that needed it, forgetting to set the swashplate parameters before centering the sticks, not centering the knobs/sliders on the side, installing the servo backwards by accident, etc...).

Now I'm not sure about JR or other brands (except for some Airtronics notes, mentioned above) but I'm feeling pretty smug right about now, specifically for the case of installing Futaba servos with the 45mm wheel into Fury mechanics.
12-08-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Pipeous
Veteran
Location: Surrey, BC, Canada

I see mention of E CCPM and M CCPM. What is the difference?
12-08-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
KC
Elite Veteran
Location: WA

sorry Vinnie, you said 45mm? I was thinking of the "old" big wheel arm, the one that has predrilled holes of about 19-20 mm (?) radius that comes with most of the std size servos.

I've probably had a few hundred of the old kind by now, haven't found that type to line up perfectly all too often.
12-08-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
ipluu
Heliman
Location: San Jose, CA

agree with KC

I agree with KC and I set up my Tempest the same way. Here is the answer from Curtis:


Question # 734 New Answer
Curtis,

Do you use subtrim to center all servos in CCPM setup or you leave the subtrim alone and drill new holes on servo wheels. Please explain.

Thanks much
Dinh
- Dinh Nguyen
San Jose, CA USA



Answer
I place the servo wheels as centered as possible without using subtrim. Then, I do minor adjustment of servo centers using subtrim. I do not redrill the servo wheels. Although that would be fine too.



Answered on December 5, 2003
12-08-2003 Over year old.
 
 
King Cobra
Veteran
Location: Virginia. USA.

Vinnie
My 94758z's on the Tempest 3D need no subtrim, no mixing, the servo arm that come with it the fartest hole is 19mm . I need only one servo extension on the top ( elevator ) .
I am surprise for FAI why do you use such a fast servo, they don't hold good on center. For the Xcell guys , maybe a cross between XcellPro, Se ( m CCPM ) with the FAI tempest head is the answer.

C.T
12-08-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
King Cobra
Veteran
Location: Virginia. USA.

My swash is level all the way but I do have little interaction when apply cyclic in some area of the pitch not bad and for 3D I can live with it, typical eccpm. For 3D I use Thumb Mixing. I fell your pain ( FAI )

C.T
12-08-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Vinnie
Senior Heliman
Location: Miami Beach, Florida

big wheels

The 45mm wheel has holes spaced 20mm from the middle. It is 45mm in diameter.

What I have noticed is that when using the alignment tool that comes with the Tempest, sometimes I would look at where the hole ended up and I would swear that it needs a little sub trim. But I checked the angle using a triangle (the big clear 90 degree triangles used for drafting) with the main shaft as a reference and sure enough, the servo alignment tool is always right.

As for the 94758z's, I was able to get the 0 degree angle, but I couldn't get the 2.5 degree angle. Also as you mentioned, its 19mm and not 20mm. Thats a 5% difference at neutral and of course it gets progressively worse as the servo moves. This is why I didn't use the stock 94758z arm although I really wanted to use it because it looks beefy as hell.

Why did I use the 94758z? I wanted to give it a try because everyone is giving it rave reviews. I was not aware that it didn't hold well around the center. I'm new to helicopters (going on 5 months now). At my level of flying I probably couldn't tell that they don't hold around the center, and I probably wouldn't be able to notice eCCPM interactions in flight (although I do notice them on the bench).
12-08-2003 Over year old.
 
 
KC
Elite Veteran
Location: WA

Vinn, I went back and read some of your posts and made a big mistake to jump on you for such a dumb thing, I can now see you are genuinely interested in learning more about flying, arent a two gallon guy at all, and you want to help others out.


I owe you a beer!
12-08-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Vinnie
Senior Heliman
Location: Miami Beach, Florida

eh

But I am a gallon or two kind of guy - a gallon or two a day!

It really is a shame that pretty much every day of flying was ended not by choice but due to some bull**** like a battery running out or something breaking.

As for this CCPM interaction thing, I think it needs to be solved because having built both kinds of systems, I love the thin main frame profile of the Fury that the simpler design affords.

And back to the original topic - so whats up do the servos sometimes not line up and I just got lucky? I have 5 more Tempests to build...
12-08-2003 Over year old.
 
 
King Cobra
Veteran
Location: Virginia. USA.

Vinnie

Understand my statement was in general to all fast speed digital servos including 9252's, for FAI ( Futaba ) try 9151's the torque a much better, hold better at center, cheaper.
Airtronics also have lot of other servos that will give the FAI guys what you need .

C.T
12-08-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Dr.Ben
Elite Veteran
Location: Richmond, VA, USA

Chris,

This might interest you. In Japan, the 9151 is very often used for cyclics in contest models because of all the reasons you mentioned. Wayne uses them in his CCPM models. The interesting thing is that they do NOT use 9151's on collective in Japan for contest work w/ mCCPM because the feel of that servo isn't as good for precision hovering. Wayne explained this to me when we were on the way to a contest last Oct. The gist was that he decided to learn to deal with the hovering issues of the 9151's because the aero performance was so much better. Cliff, on the other hand, was a bit less certain he was going to be willing to sacrifice the hovering for the added pull upstairs.

Vinnie,

I didn't say the optical tech. was new. You still have to do the R&D in integrate it into a servo design, and they're aren't interested in doing that right now. Also, I have a stack of several dozen 19.5 mm r. servo wheels (Futaba). If I'm really lucky, I can find three from that batch that will align perfectly. The last time I tried, some were very close, but close is just that. Either you drill or tweak using subtrim. Pick your poison.

The MA drill gauge is nice, but it's also very thin. In being thin, it's fairly easy to tilt the drill bit a little bit off to one side while drilling or otherwise checking the hole centering on the molded hole in the servo wheel. You gotta look from several angle to make sure the bit is squared up.

Ben Minor
12-08-2003 Over year old.
 
 
PPLON
Senior Heliman
Location: Mexico City

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03-26-2005 Over year old.
 
 
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