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Aerobatic 3D Contest > chaos???????
 
 
Alistair
Key Veteran
Location: no where land

ok... technically, what is a chaos?????

tons of piro-flips in one spot, or is it when you piro some 3-5 times, then flip ect...?
11-20-2003 Over year old.
 
 
jb_turner
Elite Veteran
Location: USA

Do a Search.
11-20-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Alistair
Key Veteran
Location: no where land

didn't come up with much
11-20-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Alistair
Key Veteran
Location: no where land

i don't disagree with you at all... makes more sense than most of the explanations i get.

11-20-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Alistair
Key Veteran
Location: no where land

t'is true...

i still try though
11-20-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Alistair
Key Veteran
Location: no where land

panos,

when doing the chaos, i can get my heli to flip using only half the cylic(half circle), or i can flip it using the full cyclic range.

aren't you -suppose- to use the full cyclic cirlce, just with correct timing so you get the slower flip rate?
11-21-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Augusto
rrAdvertiser
Location: San Diego, CA

A good controlled sustained piroueting flip will have the rotor disc flipping in the same direction while the tail pirouettes around the main shaft axis.

Not too many people can do a good sustained piroflip. Most people piroflip and kind of "catch it" over and over so the disc is not flipping in the same direction.

Now a chaos is a sustained piroflip where the pilot purposely and in a controlled manner does a maintained piroflip and slowly rotates the flipping axis 360 degrees to a full turn of the flipping axis.

The big deal about this maneuver is that it shows that you have complete control of the sustained piroflip in any orientation of the flipping rotation.

I have never seen anyone do a real chaos and Curtis told me he either saw or performed a good one only once or twice.

Lately I'm practicing piroflipping rolling circles or maybe simply called piruetting rolling circles as a way to practice for when I try a real chaos. It will be the same as far as orientations is concerned but without the translational movement. Keeping it in a single place while slowly rotating the direction of the flipping is pretty tough.

Augusto.

Avant Aurora Ultimate
11-21-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Alistair
Key Veteran
Location: no where land

i concur with both of you.

my piroflips are fine. it's this chaos **** i have trouble with.

lol, i will attempt augustos method of practicing the chaos. hopefully, it will not result in a CFIT.

thanks to the both of you.

cheers
11-21-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Augusto
rrAdvertiser
Location: San Diego, CA

Regarding the circle,

It's important to understand that in the pirouetting flip the numbers of pirouettes per flip are not related or set in stone. You can describe a full flip while doing say 10 pirouettes or even a ful flip with say 6 pirouettes. Obviously given a certain constant pirouetting speed the lower the number of pirouettes the faster the flipping portion of the mainblades disc.

The factor that controls how fast the flipping happens is the total amount of deflection away fom the center you apply. In other words the larger the "stirring circle" the higher the swashplate deflection hence the faster the flipping rate. Doing very small "stirring circles" in the cyclic will achieve slowly flipping piroflip that has a relatively fast pirouetting rate. Conversely applying a large deflection away from the center i.e. large "stirring circle" will make it look like a pretty fast flip with proportionally fast pirouettes.

What I call "piro-cheating" while piroflipping is when people let it rest for a while while in the horizontal disc portion of the flip whether it's right side up or inverted for about two full pirouettes and then continue with the piroflip. They let it rest a bit and then apply upwards momentum so that they can do the piroflip while hanging between upwards pushes. That makes the piroflip a lot easier but also a lot uglier. Doing a piroflip where the flipping of the disc has a constant rate of flip is a completely different animal. It's obvious that there has to be upwards momentum applied but people need to learn how to make it happen without stopping the flipping portion to regain momentum. There's a world of pitch management that happens in that small amount of time.

Take a look at this clip and notice that the flipping stays constant and there's no resting time when the disc is horizontal. Also in this case the deflection circle is small and as you can see there is a high number of fast pirouettes for each flip. Notice also how the direction or orientation of the flipping portion stays somehow constant throughout the piroflip. The clip is not too good an example but it servers the purpose of illustrating the mechanisms of what I'm explaining.

Augusto.

Avant Aurora Ultimate
11-21-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Raptor Rulezzz
Key Veteran
Location: Rockanje, Zuid-Holland - The Netherlands

Look at this:

http://www.gravityshots.com/flash/piriflipg.swf


Cheers,

Rich
11-21-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Alistair
Key Veteran
Location: no where land

mine are certainly not "piro-cheats" lol.. they are REAL piro-flips.

the chaos is just giving me cheek... so to speak... hmmmm, i'm a poet and i didn't even know it

anyways, i will make my attempt at a piro-rolling circle on the morrow.

thanks for the smidge of video.

cheers


Alistair
11-21-2003 Over year old.
 
 
davehour
Key Veteran
Location: Guayama, Puerto Rico

Nice thread.

Augusto:

That clip shows the flipping is always in same direction. Nice sync.
11-21-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Dino Spadaccini
Key Veteran
Location: USA

nice

that is one of the best ways I see it and to have both panos and Augusto explain it that’s great thanks

Team Thunder Tiger
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11-21-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
spurry
Veteran
Location: Wolverhampton/Leeds/ Dumfries, UK

Totally agree with Augusto's posts. Work on your timing first to get the flips so the rotor disk constantly flips in the same direction. Then you can work on rotating the flipping direction.

Other than increasing cyclic at a particular point to 'shift' the pirouetting flip or the chaos in a certain direction, I find thottle/pitch management important to be able to control the whole manouver. After increasing cyclic of your desired direction,depending on how far/fast I want to travel, I would also add a little extra throttle to the flip but in the direction I want to move. This is more important for when you do piro-flippin' loops or fly around doing constant piroeutting flips.

Check out this page for some of Pete's vids. I found his piroeutting flips were text book. We can't talk about this too much, that's why the search results are poor. Augusto's posts are the best you'll find in describing the manouver, everything else will have to be learned first hand.

James
11-21-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Hirobo St.Louis
Veteran
Location: St. Louis

this book has a whole section on it, Augusto may have helped write it



A.K.A. J.O.
11-22-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Augusto
rrAdvertiser
Location: San Diego, CA

Yup I did,

Now go out and buy it I got to feed the babies.. hehehe

Augusto.

Avant Aurora Ultimate
11-22-2003 Over year old.
 
 
sluggo
Elite Veteran
Location: Kitchener Ont

Nice post guys! Augusto we need to spend some time working on some stuff next time we meet up.

Panos is the ****!!!!!!!

Chris
11-22-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Alistair
Key Veteran
Location: no where land

lol,

augusto, i tried your method of practicing the chaos... eh.... yeah, no. i thought i nearly had somehting, then it just turned into a ball of mess in the sky

i will try again tomorrow

cheers
11-24-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Augusto
rrAdvertiser
Location: San Diego, CA

Quote 
then it just turned into a ball of mess in the sky


Hey I know that maneuver too!!!!

hehehe

Augusto.

Avant Aurora Ultimate
11-24-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Rodney
Veteran
Location: Tavares,Florida

book

Is that book for real? If so where can I get it. I really need all the help I can get.
11-24-2003 Over year old.
 
 
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