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Off Topics > California Grocery Strike
 
 
Sceadu
Senior Heliman
Location: Corona, CA

If a person has a college degree and is going to get a masters because he cant find a job.... im sure its probably because he is not looking hard enough or is to proud to work at some of the places that may hire him. I will admit I have not searched much into looking for jobs and am now looking more than ever. I do not believe a degree should automatically get you a job and especially not a certain wage. Many people who do not go to college are more qualified for certain jobs than recent grads, its just how it is.


Quote 
They spoonfeed you so much crap


IF you only saw the propaganda Vons is giving us.... Letters attached to paychecks.... making you watch videos... its all BS
10-13-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Dragon2115
Key Veteran
Location: New England

There's always two sides to the story. On the one hand we have labor unions striking every time the guy that installs lug nuts all day doesn't get a raise even though he's already making $18/hr plus full medical, dental, and life insurance. On the other hand we have places like American Airlines that tried to get it's three unions to make $2 billion in concessions to keep the company afloat while the executives still kept their million dollar bonuses. Oh and lets not forget the non-union companies. They don't want to give the help even a decent cost of living increase but the executives still get their stock options, bonuses, and company cars. And when that doesn't make the bottom line look good enough they lay off some of the help while STILL keeping their bonuses.
10-13-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
CyberPilot
Veteran
Location: Yorba Linda CA

OK, I'll bite.....

I am a non-union, non-manager grunt. I'll be honest, I don't have any idea of what the fuss is all about....except what I see on the news.

Sceadu, you said not to rely on the media but so far they have been the only source of information that I've seen and the only specifics I've heard is that the employer wants the employees to pay $5 per week towards their own medical benefits ($10-$15 for families); my individual medical went up last year to $52 per pay period (about $26 per week) with less coverage and higher co-pays. Medical cost went up for everybody; you guys are not being singled out in that respect.

I'm not siding with or against anyone but in order for me to make an intelligent decision I'd like to hear some specifics on why the employees are striking. A simple "they're trying to screw us" doesn't cut it with me and $5 for medical benefits doesn't sound like a good reason either; especially when I pay 5 times that amount. However, I'm still trying to keep an open mind and I'd like to hear some facts on behalf of the employees. When I hear about "Corporate greed", "executive bonuses" or "country club memberships" it means nothing; it's too vague. Give me specifics and facts if you want to win my support.

Dave

~OCHC~
I make kits from helis :-)
10-13-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Sceadu
Senior Heliman
Location: Corona, CA

Go to http://www.ufcw1167.org The news is only highlighting the healthcare, and those he cross the picket lines are using that as there excuse, that everyone pays for health care. If you visit that link, you can click on their proposal and see the news isnt giving all the information. You will get the most information from the side which has the most money. Here is the direct link to their proposal. http://www.ufcw1167.org/x_negotiati...03proposals.htm
10-13-2003 Over year old.
 
 
JCadwell
Key Veteran
Location: Richland WA/ Morro Bay, CA

I went to school to get a masters not because I couldn't find a job, but because the pay was piddly in comparison with the union laborers. I worked in the electrical power industry. I have a hard time honestly believing that the guy that is painting lines in the parking lot is more valuable to the corporation than the person responsible for keeping 1000 MW worth of generating capacity online. Both sides need to work together, but sometimes a modicum of reason need be applied.

Thanks, John Cadwell
10-13-2003 Over year old.
 
 
CyberPilot
Veteran
Location: Yorba Linda CA

Sceadu,

Thanks for the link. I'll check it out.

Dave

~OCHC~
I make kits from helis :-)
10-13-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Hawk4flyer
Senior Heliman
Location: Deland,Florida

I would like to add my two cents in here. Not that it was solicited. I have been on both sides of the fence, as far as emloyee/employeer go. By no means was any company that I own/owned been or became a multi-national chain. But.....

As an employee, I felt as though I was getting the shaft of things. Benifits were always to costly for me and wages never seemed to amount to much. All my friends and neihbors were driving brand new cars and had nice clothes....

As an emplyer, I felt that no one was worth more than $10.00 an hour. Workers were consistantly not producing and equal amount of product that they were getting paid to produce.

I've lived both lives of this very heated debate.

So the bottom line is this, just as you feel that you deserve more for what you produce, your employer deserves more for compensating you comparitively.

Simply put, if you get a 50 cent raise, you give 50cents more work. IF you take back 50cents of work your employeer should be able to take 50 cents of pay. Thats fair.

Things you might not know about corporations...
As a CEO you are personal and finacially responsible for the Company. i.e. the CEO signs the loan note with his personal signiture not the corporate seal. Personally placing his trust in the human resorces for his future credit. The human resorces being you the employee.

This analogy is very subjective I know, but it drive home a point. Those guys that are more worried about thier next golf game have alot more to worry about than medical benifits.
10-14-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Dragon2115
Key Veteran
Location: New England

I don't think that's correct. One of the major points of incorporating is that the officers can not be held personally liable nor can their personal assets be seized. Only the corporation can be sued.
10-14-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
gpyros
Key Veteran
Location: On a beach in Mexico

Dragon:

In your dreams!

Having my own business for 22 years, let me tell you, any bank, venture capitol, whoever, REQUIRES that the head(s) of the company personally guarantee any and all loans, incorporated or not.

There are many advantages to incorporating (we are) because a lawsuit can only take the corporate assets, but unless you are IBM there will have to be a personal guarantee. Same with the rent for the office, equipment leases, etc. Ever look at a corporate lease agreement? The company and the owner are responsible for the entire amount of the lease, even if you close the company or go out of business.

The other party that can come after an owner personally is the government. Back taxes, social security, whatever must be paid, and if there isn't enough in the company, the owner pays it himself.

Yes, it is my personal assets and house on the line here. If anything should happen, the employees just walk - I'm the one who has to make sure that everyone gets their accrued vacation pay, 401k benefits, and everything else.

If I'm the only one taking the risk, I would like to get some sort of compensation for it in the form of profit. I can imagine how I'd feel if I was told that I had to keep an employee on because a union decided that I needed to have him do a certain job that another employee was perfectly capable of doing - like some of the items on the link that Sceadu kindly shared with us.

As you may have guessed, we are not a union shop. I'd close the doors before I'd allow that to happen.

Sorry, didn't mean to get started, but had to correct some of the misconceptions about us greedy owners.

Greg

Maxi-Joker helicam
Joker-CX helicam
Graupner Jet Ranger (elec)
Raptor-50
Logo-10
9CH
10-14-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Sceadu
Senior Heliman
Location: Corona, CA

All in all, most of the customers are respecting the picket line. Some customers giving cases of water and snacks. I was amazed. At the store I work at on a typical Sunday they bring in 85k, last Sunday, 28k. . Normally today(monday) 45k..... said they will maybe do 10k. You do have the customers who are just plain against unions who could care less. Even the store manangers come out and talk to us, most of them dont think it is right and want all of us back in there as they can not stand the people they have working for them.

I am seeing the union thing is a bit touchy. This is definetly an experience, fun for a while, we'll see for how long though.

It will be hard seeing the customers that crossed the line when we go back... I recognized quite a few that are regulars. I will not show any vengence and keep it on a professional level as we all return to work. Its just..... If they were on fire.... I wouldnt even spit on them
10-14-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Hawk4flyer
Senior Heliman
Location: Deland,Florida

I'm with you gpyros, I would shut the doors if anyone even thought of bringing in a Union.

I was told a story, how much truth in it I don't know. Guy starts a company in Florida going great guns. making good profits reinvesting them into the Company growing like mad. The maintenance staff get greedy and want some of the profits. They start a union.......

The day after creating this union, they all show up to work to find the doors locked and the keys don't fit. No more union......

This guy shut down overnight because of a union. He had personal knowledge of what unions do to companies. He made his money as a negotiator for an airline union. lol

I know this guy. Hellofva nice guy. Knows how to make a profit and he is more than willing to pass on the profits. Wish all businessmen were as well rounded as he. I've never made a deal with him that I didn't like.
10-14-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Dragon2115
Key Veteran
Location: New England

gpyros,

Then please explain Arthur D. Little where they corporation went belly up, the retirees lost their retirement funds (except for a pitance that was able to be seized from the company assets), the employees lost accrued vacation time, and NONE, I repeat NONE of the corporate officers, or Board of Directors lost their homes or any other personal assets. None of their creditors were able to touch ANY of their personal assets, just the companies assets.
10-14-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
gpyros
Key Veteran
Location: On a beach in Mexico

Dragon:

I did specifically say that "unless you are IBM" there will have to be a personal guarantee.

All of our employee 401k retirment plans are with an outside investor so they can't be touched if there are any problems, as most reputable companies are set up.

I can't explain this hearsay on Arthur D. Little, or any other company where I don't have any intimate knowledge.

I'm just telling it like it is for the vast percentage of companies with under $50 mil or so a year in income, from my 20+ years of experience as founder and owner of such a small company.

Greg

Maxi-Joker helicam
Joker-CX helicam
Graupner Jet Ranger (elec)
Raptor-50
Logo-10
9CH
10-14-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
spiff71
Heliman
Location: Elyria Ohio

I loved this...


"Unions are for people who cant hold a job on their own Merritt"

Well I am a union worker and when I get called out to do a job if I didnt do it right or fast enough they would can my a$$ and call the hall and get someone who can do it. I know this because I have been sent to jobs b4 to replace the slouchers. In the circle that I travel and work in your name is what you got and if its bad you dont work plane and simple. Maybe just maybe not all unions are run the same? Naaa what am I thinking all unions are scum right. I mean the only place to find a real worker is in an open shop. I have friends in regular jobs that tell me they wish they could make the money I make, but, they dont want to work 60-70 hours a week to do it. They dont want to run a lance rod at the tap hole of a blast furnace wearing a full silver heat suit to make it either. Think they wanna run the 90pound jackhammer for 12-13 hours a day or maybe pour 1200 yards of concrete in a day? No they dont want to do none of that and dont see how I can. They just want to be paid the money I make. Maybe union bashing aint they key, Im not saying I know what the solution is but reading how I dont have any merritt while i sit here and rub the blisters on my palms...well....


bah never mind im justa dumb union worker scum anyhow
10-14-2003 Over year old.
 
 
rkelder
Senior Heliman
Location: Portland, Oregon

I've been both sides of this fence and myself don't care for the way the union works. Our union did a vote to get the seniors more money but they had to take away from the new employees coming on board to get it. How stupid is that, you're going to cheat your kids to get a buck for you? It went through and new employees started at $ 9.00 an hour for 18 months to get a whole $ .50 raise, but still paid union dues. Protects the senior employees by offering better pay and position by seniority rather than merit and ability. I quit my job there and have been in business for myself ever since. My company is an S-Corp and you can bet your A$$ everything is guaranteed by me personally, so if things went south, so would my home.

Ray

If I throw a stick, will you leave?
10-14-2003 Over year old.
 
 
ShuFly
Senior Heliman
Location: San Diego, Calif.

On my way to Albertson's to grocery shop. The chicks picketing out front are in short-shorts and halter tops!
10-14-2003 Over year old.
 
 
CyberPilot
Veteran
Location: Yorba Linda CA

Quote 
On my way to Albertson's to grocery shop. The chicks picketing out front are in short-shorts and halter tops!


Oh yeah, that will drive the customer's away..........

~OCHC~
I make kits from helis :-)
10-14-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
CyberPilot
Veteran
Location: Yorba Linda CA

I've read the Union web-site

I've read the Union's interpretation of what "could" or "might' happen if the contract was accepted. The truth is those things can happen at almost any job (i.e. new hires making less than me & getting more hours). While these things may or may not be fair (depends on the situation) they can (and do) happen else where. Still, there's no indication that anything negative will happen; only that it could happen. As far as heath benefits, they're going up for everyone.

So, while I support the workers legal right to strike I don't agree with them. Furthermore, I feel that it should not involve the customers or others engaged with the day to day operations of the business.

I don't like the fact that I'm inconvenienced because of a dispute between an employer and employee that doesn't involve me but none the less, the market is open less hours, there's fewer people to help and the shelves are not fully stocked. You've made an impact; be happy. However, that still isn't enough for the workers. They insist that I shop elsewhere further inconveniencing me. Now that's not right; I did nothing to you.

Don't get me wrong. I hope that the workers & the market come to an agreement that is fair and equable for both sides just keep me out of it and don't hassle me if I still want to shop there.

Dave

~OCHC~
I make kits from helis :-)
10-14-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
eSmith
Veteran
Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada

Ok, I got this stuff started and I'm thinking I was too broad in my SCUM statment, if you all will allow me, I'd like to differentiate between: Trade Unions and Labour Unions.

Trade unions serve more than just the interests of the employees. They also only accept qualified trained workers into thier ranks and through this peer system you can be sure to get a worker with a legitimate skill. These people are NOT scum, they are talented contributing members of society. (They can however demand more than they derserve but it is not a rule that this is the case.)

Labour unions are the scum........... There is no training needed to join, heck, you don't even have to be in the same industry, heck, look at the united auto workers, they allow you in if you work at a McDonalds and have a few others willing to pay union dues. In my home town of less than 30,000 people they even had a musicians union. We had this local crook, running around demanding union dues from any band of teenagers playing thier high school dance and then sending it down to the musicians union of america! That's not even our country, who are these crooks to do that?

I hope this clears things up a little, perhaps I should have used a smaller brush instead of painting everything the same.


-eSmith.

http://www.edmheli.ca
10-14-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Sceadu
Senior Heliman
Location: Corona, CA

Quote 
Our union did a vote to get the seniors more money but they had to take away from the new employees coming on board to get it.


The people who made up your Union.... to pass a vote like that, they are out of their mind. We are also fighting for the new hires. You tell me who in their right mind (ceo of vons isnt) would keep on senior employee's when the new hires will work for half the price? This will lead to forcing the seniors out, and getting more new hires in.

Some of those girls at albertsons that are wearing bikini's..... are the ones that shouldnt Some are good eye candy though


As far as the "Could" and "Might", if you knew the type of character the head guy is..... those would be "Will" and "Definetly"
10-15-2003 Over year old.
 
 
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Mikado Modellhubschrauber . GrandRC . CanoMod

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Off Topics > California Grocery Strike
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