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JR-Spektrum . Gyro Hobbies . E-flite

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Main Discussion > Heavy Duty JR Switch failure in flight...
 
 
Heli-Driver
Elite Veteran
Location: Arlington, TX

Well, I'm lucky to have a heli today. yesterday I was on my third flight of my Fury Extreme when all of a sudden I had no control, the heli acted a bit wierd kinda jumped a bit on cyclics and all of a sudden the tail blows out to a blinding pirouette..

I'm grabbing every switch on my 9Z trying to keep the inevitable from happening.. No good... hold didn't work, kill switch, cyclics dead, I got nothing.... the heli is almost level when the problem happened and the piro rate apparently help to keep it level and the pitch was just enough where it didn't drop fast.

It landed over by the control line field and landed on its feet, no blade damage or anything else... the tail boom was pulled from the split front clamp completely, the boom braces were holding the boom to the heli, the drive shaft wasn't damaged nor was the tail section.

The wierd thing is the heli engine died when it landed yet I still had no control and plenty of fuel.

Either the piro rate or the impact (maybe some of each) caused the fuel tank to shift forward and pulled off the fuel line. Otherwise the motor would have been running at idleup speeds.

I guess the 9253 servo just rotated to full stop when the power got turned off by the broken switch causing the piro rate as the motor was still running WFO..

I don't think the tail boom came out first, that could explain the piro rate but doesn't explain the no power issue. So I'm pretty sure the switch was the cause.

I never thought about it but it makes sense that if you lose power in flight and the throttle doesn't drop you'll probably end up with a pirouetting heli because the 9253 is so easy to move with no power I know it couldn't hold the tail rotor without any power.

I inspected the tail boom and there is a slight crack in the boom (maybe an inch long at the front) where it would normally be inside the front clamp so I am replacing the boom. I am totally amazed there was no more damage...

I figured that if that ever happened in flight the heli would probably just fly off and crash, well it was off on it's own but I was very lucky it came down under power pirouetting madly and didn't even tip over...

wierd eh? I'm thinking about adding a spring to the throttle arm and maybe running a dual switch... any thoughts?



Raymond

Predator Gasser SE/231 X 2
Century Helicopters
09-08-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Wally
Veteran
Location: San Diego, CA

I typically run a short 6" lead and plug the battery straight in to it and don't use a switch.

Only takes 10 seconds to remove the canopy to get to it.

I had a switch failure on the JR HD as well about a month ago on a friends R30, and watched as it slowly hovered inverted at about 5 feet over to the pit area and into the dumpster... It was pretty damn scary how stable it was for the 30 foot journey! I thought it was going to really hurt someone.

Picked it out of the trash and nothing was working. Had to bypass the switch to find it was okay.

The Big Wally
09-08-2003 Over year old.
 
 
cdrking
Elite Veteran
Location: Seattle

Raymond, you've had a wild summer! Fires, helis piroing to the ground, wow.

There was a thread on RR a while back about a turbine guy I think who said the we are crazy for running these antiquated switches. I don't remember where the thread was though.

I am running a really cheap switch on one of my Raptor 50s. On my Fury I run the Futaba heavy duty switch. I have thought about switching to the new rocker type switch that Rick's and Heliprozs are selling.

Were you running fail safe so throttle goes to idle? I am sure that would not have helped in this situation but just wondering. I also remember someone talking about a spring too. Maybe that was in MHT magazine.

Hope you get it together soon.

Jeff

To hover is divine, the alternative is rather PLANE.
09-08-2003 Over year old.
 
 
karlk
Heliman
Location: Petaluma, CA

Stories like these are why I always run dual packs & switches on my 60 sized machines. Nothing like a totalled high-end heli because your $10 switch failed.

-Karl
09-08-2003 Over year old.
 
 
mcap232
Senior Heliman
Location: Low Cal (San Diego)

I run the fail on switches from Jim Orrdino and they are great. The cost is little high but the piece of mind is woth it. I have run them in my GS planks for 5 years now and the one that did fail; worked as desinged. I run them in by helis because I have them, but the more I think about it; helis seem like the place where their use would be most desirable.

Matt Wheeler
09-08-2003 Over year old.
 
 
nickwap
Veteran
Location: Berwick-upon-Tweed -ENGLAND not Scotland

Fail safe would not have helped, you need power to move the servos to the faisafe positions.
You scare me cos I got a JR HD switch on my Rappy!
I read your post but are you SURE it was the switch?

Nick

R50, R90, Synergy,Trex 600N, JR9303 2.4 now all I need is some skill!
09-08-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Heli-Driver
Elite Veteran
Location: Arlington, TX

Guys,

I'm POSITIVE it was the JR HD switch.... the reason I bought them over the stock Futaba switches was durability and amp loading of running all digital servos in the Fury.

All I can say is I was damn lucky, Adam keeps telling me I crash better than anyone he's seen... well what a dubious honor...

Anyway, thanks to DavidH for the links, looks like I may explore the Duralite Regulator and may even make the move to 6 volt packs regulated down to 5.1v. However I worry the damn regulator will fail *LOL*

Jeff, it hasn't been a boring summer, that's for sure...
When you lose power to the reciever failsafe is lost... the only thing that would have helped and in hindsight, maybe it wouldn't, would be to have a spring on the throttle arm pulling it back to idle if servo power is lost. For that to work you'd have to have a fairly strong spring and or a low drag servo like the 9253 which rotates very easy when not powered.

In this particular incident, if the throttle had gone to idle, it is possible the heli would have stopped pirouetting but it also would likely have hit the ground a lot harder and probably boom striked or worse.



Raymond

Predator Gasser SE/231 X 2
Century Helicopters
09-08-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Heli-Driver
Elite Veteran
Location: Arlington, TX

I just took apart the old JR HD switch after I replaced it with a Futaba HD switch whichis BTW much beefier both casewise and wire leads. I didn't realize the HD Futaba switch was as nice as it is.

The outer case if the JR switch is fairly large giving the impression it is a serious switch. Upon taking it apart I realized there was a small regular sized switch assembly with a secondary board underneath which all the wire leads connect to.

I found the black ground wire broken at the solder joint, this is why the switch failed.

Just wanted to pass the info along... the wire lead was NOT stressed at all, as a matter of fact I normally route the wire to insure it has slack going in and out of the switch for this very reason.

Not sure if this is the cause of most switch failures but it certainly was the case in mine.



Raymond

Predator Gasser SE/231 X 2
Century Helicopters
09-14-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
rickc
Elite Veteran
Location: Creve Coeur IL. (Peoria Area)

Nothing lasts forever; I replace my switch each season as a precaution. I look at it as a 20.00 preventative maintenance. I believe JR makes a high quality switch even though I use a 9Z radio I couldn't bring myself to use the switch provided with the 9Z. JR switches use gold plated contacts and have a very positive on off feel. The only safeguard up from a JR switch I feel would be the one that DavidH mentioned.
09-14-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Heli-Driver
Elite Veteran
Location: Arlington, TX

Rick, I agree the stock Futaba switch is pretty lame. The new HD Futaba is much better than the kit switches.. It is much beefier than the JR as well, plus unlike the JR, the Futaba HD has rubber boots/grommets where the wires enter the case.

Personally, I don't share your view a $15.00 power switch should only last a year. I've had std. switches last longer in other ships... I only went to the JR HD for the amp loading of the digital servos. The Futaba is just as heavy duty in this aspect. Whether it lasts or not, time will tell. At the time I didn't realize Futaba had a decent HD switch.

I may migrate over to 6v regulated systems this winter with the electronic failsafe switch. I really like that idea and I know I will have plenty of juice for those thristy 9252s.



Raymond

Predator Gasser SE/231 X 2
Century Helicopters
09-14-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
rickc
Elite Veteran
Location: Creve Coeur IL. (Peoria Area)

I'll have to look at a HD Futaba and consider it the next time I feel its time for some PM. In planks I have had switches last for many years, well I never wore one out. On a heli the vibration level is higher and I may be wrong but I feel the wear and tear could be higher on a switch, this is the reason for a replacement once a season. I really don't want to find out how long a switch will last. On my CS I'm using a JR HD, it's the 3rd one in 3 seasons, the others get passed down to planks or my Raptor. I use a 5.1-volt regulator on the lithium pack in the CS, the perfect switch with regulator sounds like the best way to avoid possible problems.

Rick
09-14-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Greg McFadden
Key Veteran
Location: Spokane Valley, WA

the www.fromeco.org switches work well... I dig them (another fail on switch)

-Greg

The silence often, of pure innocence persuades, when speaking fails
09-14-2003 Over year old.
 
 
flmgrip
Veteran
Location: Irvine, CA, United States

Quote 
Stories like these are why I always run dual packs & switches on my 60 sized machines. Nothing like a totalled high-end heli because your $10 switch failed.


i also fly with 4 main blades so if i loose two of them i still can fly...


what signature ?
09-15-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Agilefalcon
Veteran
Location: Fort Worth, Texas

Howdy Raymond:
I had a switch failure similar to yours. I believe the problem lies in the switch mount in the Fury. I think that the mount is easily set into motion via forced resonance and that in flight your switch and wiring is taking a hammering.

Many of the JR pilots are mounting their switches in a soft mount. I'm not sure that this would help in the Fury because the switch mount is not supported at both ends. You basically end up with one side of a tuning fork!

Look into securing both ends of the switch mount before using it again.

Just a thought.

Chris Berardi
MRC/Hirobo Representative
Amsoil Synthetic Lubricants Dealer
09-15-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
skydvr79
Senior Heliman
Location: gainesville, florida, usa

dual switch

I run a dual switch setup and love it if one switch fails the other still works no problems and works great if you want pics or setup info e-mail me skydvr79@earthlink.net
09-15-2003 Over year old.
 
 
AGRAV8
rrProfessor
Location: Mosquito Coast......Houston Texas

dude, what else could go this summer....?

Raymond: you coming down to the FF this weekend??

Give me a call #281-580-1951 if you are......I might need a favor. James
09-15-2003 Over year old.
 
 
duc996bp
Senior Heliman
Location: Preston, UK

Does any one know what the part No. is for the Futaba HD Switch?

John
09-15-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Drunk Monk
rrProfessor
Location: Preston, UK

dual switches? now there's an interesting idea. I've had a jr switch in my rappy now for 18 months, do you reckon it's worth changing then? Haven't had any trouble with it yet though.


Stephen

I only open my mouth to change feet.....
09-15-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Heli-Driver
Elite Veteran
Location: Arlington, TX

Chris,

You make a very good point regarding the Fury switch mount being a tuning fork.. never thought about it that way.

It makes me want to go in there and add a front support stud similar to the rear one.

James, tell me about all the issues I've had this summer....sheese four times is enough for anyone. I don't think I can make Houston this weekend, just isn't in the cards... however, I'll probably give you a call today, I still owe you one....

John,
I ordered mine from Rick's RC:
FUTM4385 - SWITCH HEAVY DUTY FOR DIGITAL SERVOS
Code: FUTM4385
Price: $18.69



Raymond

Predator Gasser SE/231 X 2
Century Helicopters
09-15-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
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