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Computer Flight Simulators > From trainning 3D on Sim to the real thing ...what is the main difference ?
 
 
Rico
Senior Heliman
Location: New-Caledonia(South Pacific)

Hello Guys,
Have you been through it ? got your own opinion or experience?
thanks for your feedback
Eric Aka Rico
03-13-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Doug
Elite Veteran
Location: Naples Florida....

It's just "Different" Hard to fully explain
03-13-2002 Over year old.
 
 
BladeRunner
Elite Veteran
Location: Ontario Canada. Member of "some sort" s

Sim to Real?

Usually the difference is about $200, unless you fly a Raptor-then it's about $29.99, judging from the posts here.
03-13-2002 Over year old.
 
 
sebastianforbes
Senior Heliman
Location: the wallops, hampshire, england

ouch, a lot of difference.

hi there,

i have just spent a whole week of bad weather on csm v10 and i went out to the field thinking that i could rewrite the book !

how wrong i was !!!

i lost tail control twice - the 1st time i landed nose-in ( thanks csm ) and the 2nd time i lost the war against gravity. my baron 30 s cannot be fixed in the uk ( not at a reasonable cost ) and so i am getting a raptor 30. the two disciplines cannot be mixed but compliment each other within your limitations and the weather conditions. always practice with extra wind and turbulence ( at least double )on the flight sim and then it might come close to real life.

best of luck to you all.

sebastian forbes.
03-14-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Rico
Senior Heliman
Location: New-Caledonia(South Pacific)

Thanks guy for your answer....but I was looking to a more precise testimony ....we all know that crash cost and fear is different ,It would be more interesting for all of us to get a testinony from someone how get through sim 3D trainning to the real thinks I am myself at the" gate" of" it" so could be me to bring that testimony :-)) I have use CSM V10, True Flight 4.02 and real flight (the last is the better to me with CSM) practicing all kind of manoeuvre as possible ,the best would be now to get an experiment 3D pilot with a trainning cord ...but unfortunatly not available for me and for most part of us !

3D maneouvre is the subject here :-)))
03-14-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Rico
Senior Heliman
Location: New-Caledonia(South Pacific)

Thanks Futura ...this is a good start :-))
Our worst enemy at the field his probably ourself :-( and we need strong mental to get through new manoeuvre so your experience give me an hope the other too in the same situation an extra confidence that will be profitable at field
Thanks
03-14-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Naomi
Elite Veteran
Location: Ontario, Canada

Different between Sim and Real thing

In short..

In Sim - Hit Space Bar to reset and there you go again.
No starting or fuel or battery level to worry about
No repairs needed if crashed. Maybe if the windows crashed..
No dent in your pocket book.

Real thing.
No space bar to reset the heli
pre-flight check required. mechanical and electronics
Ruin the whole day when heli crashed watching anxiously at the sideline while other having fun
Visiting LHS for parts.. if available is Great.. if back order.. Grrr..
$$$ wasted hopefully lesson learned NOT to make the same stupid mistake.
Heart Rate shot up 120% maybe some ez listening music helps
gees.. anything else i could have missed.

Naomi
03-15-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
BladeRunner
Elite Veteran
Location: Ontario Canada. Member of "some sort" s

Training?

"gees......anything else I could have missed"? Maybe the lump in the back of the pants and that "funny" smell!
03-15-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Naomi
Elite Veteran
Location: Ontario, Canada

Ah.. so that's what i forgot to mentioned.. ! someone might actually would soil themselves..

Naomi
03-15-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
XLFLYER
Senior Heliman
Location: Denver, Colorado

Rico
I started with the g2 eight months ago and practiced for an hour a night for a month. The trick is not to get on it and play with it like a toy but a training tool. Practice hovering in different orientations, etc. The first time I took my raptor out I hovered right away and three gallons later I lost the rotopods. Now I am doing many 3d maneuvers, inverted circuits, tick tocks, etc. I usually practice a maneuver then go out to the field this seems like a good routine. I agree with futura. I have my sim set up so it is not as stable as my Fury 80 so when I go out and fly the Fury feels real stable and predictable. And yes it does prepare you for flight failures. I had a flame out and since I had practiced autos on the sim I was able to save it!

Some of the differences I have noticed are:
1) The wind feels different then in the sim.
2) It is harder to see your heli in the sim then in real life.
3) It is harder to judge speed and altitude in the sim even if you choose to (look at ground) and (increase the model size).
Hope this helps!

03-16-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
miataguy
Veteran
Location: Santa Barbara, CA

I use the auto-zoom feature in G2 to help with point 2.

Official RunRyder Googlewhacker!
03-16-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Rico
Senior Heliman
Location: New-Caledonia(South Pacific)

XLFLYER
thanks for feedback it help ...I do use the sim as a training tool too and not a toy ,trying do do my flight as real as possible it is and that make all the difference when practicing.

As I say first "3D sim trainning" is the subject here so that mean you have reach a good all around flight and some aerobatic skill level which give you the feeling to determine how close to the real thing you are when practicing .

The point were I should get some trouble with is the the "tick over " or if you like the moment of the flight were you go from normal to invert that is for sure the point were your fear and stick imput can make the things going wrong ....

One question I have often ask to myself and that sim don't give you is how do your heli will feel in the invert position ,with the center of gravity inverted ?
What are the diference here?

I have no doubt sim could help in 3D as all manoeuvre can be done " on spot" were the gravity limit of the sim is not reach !

Once again If 3d is routine flight for lot of you it is still a hard to reach step for lot of us so I and hope the other too will apreciate your feed back coment about that subject .

Rico
03-16-2002 Over year old.
 
 
XLFLYER
Senior Heliman
Location: Denver, Colorado

Rico,
Sorry for not answering your question clearly enough. I hope this helps!

The sim replicates the inverted feeling fairly closely. I have noticed when flying my raptor 30 inverted it is a little nose heavy and will pitch down. In turns when inverted you need to feed in more nose up when compared to upright flight. So, overall I feel that your elevator is a little more sensitive. If you are just starting 3d I would go up high where your heli is a dot and flip the heli. This scared the cr#! out of me the first time however, once you get adjusted to feeding the negative in fairly quickly it gets fun. Stop your forward motion and pull back on your elevator when the blades are vertical go to zero pitch and pull negative as it goes over and hold your elevator until you are upright. Practice roles, loops, and extending loops. When flying inverted it took me a while to get adjusted to thinking that pushing forward on the elevator stick was nose up and pushing down (pulling back) was nose down and pushing the rudder and roll sticks together was left and apart is right. See what I mean and when you roll back over to right side up your brain can get the rudder backward for a few seconds. I would recommend rolling out of an inverted position when low to the ground verse half looping because the half loop will use up more altitude. And I am sure you will not do this however, I have seen many people panic when inverted and fly the heli into the ground verse rolling out. So to sum up I think the pitch axis is more sensitive and going from positive pitch to negative and getting the timing correct will take a little practice. Email me if you have any more questions or if I didn't quite answer your reply.
03-16-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Rico
Senior Heliman
Location: New-Caledonia(South Pacific)

That is great Matt ....I was already happy with your last post :-)))
I just asking myself some question as we "rolling stone" I have never read any thing regarding thoses point and it realy help to get experience flyer testimony even if it look like natural to you when question are ask you then realize all thoses little detail that make things understandable for thoses like me who have to go though it .

I will give my own experience to that topic as I will go a step higher
Thanks again Matt
Rico
03-16-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Dave_D
Key Veteran
Location: Philippines

Good call...

I just did my first 1 foot inverted nose-in hover today and it was fantastic! Thanks to G2!!!!
03-17-2002 Over year old.
 
 
Raffy
Key Veteran
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Practice

Simulators help you practice new maneauvers over and over until your hand coordination with the maneauver is mastered - the maneauvers you wouldn't dare try in the flying field. This then give you the confidence to attempt the maeuver in the flying field.
Now, doing the real thing in the flying field from the simulator is not that easy, because not only are you going to do 3D stunts, but now your view and perspective controlling the helicopter is now in 3D!!!!!!
03-24-2002 Over year old.
 
 
rbrodt
Heliman
Location: Colorado Springs, CO

Hey Rico,

Some things about RealFlight that I've found really annoying:

1. The real thing does not spin around on the ground when you apply throttle.
2. The real thing is not tilted at a 10+ degree angle from vertical when you're hovering.
3. The real thing does not react instantaneously to control inputs.
4. The real thing does not rebuild itself when you hit the space bar

It almost feels like the simulator is overestimating the effects of main rotor torque.

Cheers!
Bob
03-27-2002 Over year old.
 
 
freestyle
Veteran
Location: Redmond WA USA

I've spent a lot of time tweaking the sim's roll rate and pirouette rate so they match my real heli. It's kind of tedious because I've never used a stopwatch to time my rolls or anyhing - I just adjust the sim by feel - but I like the results.

The sim's gyro is more predictable than reality. If you find that you hardly ever use the rudder in the sim, turn down the simulator's gyro gain, or tail rotor size, or something like that. The tail will slip out a little now and then, like it does in real life, which will force you to learn to work the rudder. If you have a 601, this may be less of an issue.

I also think that most of the default simulator setups (and the ones I've downloaded) are way overpowered. Set the pitch range to something like +/-9 degrees, and turn down the engine power until you can hear the engine struggling just a little bit at full collective. I think I'm running my G2 setup with something like 40% engine power (but I haven't looked at the numbers recently).

Besides practicing maneuvers on the sim, practice saves. Try to do maneuvers way beyond your skill level, just for the experience of being out of control for a moment. Then, regain control. Fight with it all the way to the ground if that's what it takes. Eventually you'll get better and better at saving it. Then you'll be much less likely to panic if you get surprised in real life. Some friends who trained wth Tod Bennet said this was one of his exercises for them (he takes the heli way upstairs with the buddy box, then does something weird and asks you to get it under control). It gave them more confidence to try new stuff. I used to try to do death spirals and rolling tailslides with the CSM 8.3 simulator - there was no heading hold mode in those days, so I always got into an new and unexpected orientation that way.

I made a web page about simulators once...

http://www.natew.com/rcheli/frames.cgi/html.Simulator

Ignore the stuff I wrote about RFD, a lot has changed since then (it's no longer called RFD, for starters!),
03-27-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
rsilvers
Senior Heliman
Location: Marshfield, MA

My GY401 gyro works much better than RealFlights HH gyro.
03-27-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
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Computer Flight Simulators > From trainning 3D on Sim to the real thing ...what is the main difference ?
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