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A Main Hobbies . Boca Bearings . Modefo's RC Helicopters

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Crashed? Discussion and Photos > Is crashing part of day to day RC Helis life?
 
 
Augusto
rrAdvertiser
Location: San Diego, CA

Some time ago I read a post from an airplane flyer. He was saying that he was reading the heli forum and he thought the heli pilots had a fixation with crashing. He said we went to the extreme of rating helicopters on "how good they crash" and he thougth that was completely crazy.
In a certain way I understand his point of view since I'm myself a plank flier too. I have airplanes that are like 15 years old and I haven't crashed them (yet ).
Now my question is: do you guys think there is a point when you get to be so good that you start crashing once evety 5 years or so like on airplanes? Or do you think that if you stop crashing it only means you're not pushing the envelope anymore?

Avant Aurora Ultimate
10-29-2001 Over year old.
 
 
heliflyer
Heliman
Location: Santa Rosa,Ca.

Experience or Luck?

An experienced pilot certainly crashes less often. I definetely see alot more heli crashes than with planks. Years ago an older gentleman told me that helicopters arent suppose to fly. The fact that they do is amazing. Then you watch some of these guys tear up the sky. I'm surprised we dont see more crashes!

Like the cartoon that has a heli pilot with a dark cloud lingering over him. In anticipation of something catastrophic about to happen.

I have a good friend that generally crashes twice a weekend. Thank goodness its only a R30. It's usually orientention related. Planks have a large profile in the air. Helis look like sticks 100ft out.

Let's face it,they dont float. How many of you fight them all the way down
Roy
10-29-2001 Over year old.
 
 
coop
Senior Heliman
Location: Bainbridge, NY

I agree with Roy, your crash ratio will become less as you get more experiance flying, but I think no matter how good you get , helis will still have a higher probability of going in, you have all those spinning parts trying to get away from each other, Murphys Law x 10...I find with myself, my crashes now are usually from some kind of equipment failure rather than pilot error, although I still get stricken occassionally with a case of dumbinest thumbitis, usually when there are a crowd of people present,( Murphys law must be directly proportional to the number of people watching) So I quess to answer your question, I don't think you will ever get to a point where you don't crash, but the more experiance you get, you will crash less because of pilot error. "If you aren't crashing once in awhile, you aren't flying".....Coop
10-29-2001 Over year old.
 
 
Steve Campbell
Elite Veteran
Location: Baton Rouge, LA

<>

That's me, for sure. I have crashed twice in the past three years, and only one of those was really my fault. But then, I'm not trying the latest backwards flipping/spinning/inverted whatever, either. I applaud those who can do it, and I find it interesting to watch. Personally, the challenge of making the thing fly smoothly in a scale-like manner (slow inside turns, etc.), with an occasional loop, roll, Immeman turn, split-S, etc., thrown in is plenty satisfying to me. And taking my ship home in one piece at the end of each session is a good feeling too...

But helicopters are inherently more "crashable" than planks. One link or bolt failing can send the machine plummeting to it's death. Plankers don't understand this; until they get involved with helicopters.

But I think the the best statement ever made about the subject was uttered by Harry Reasoner 20 or so years ago. He was doing a news report about military pilots, and was talking about the mechanically nightmarish complexity of helicopters:

"Fixed wing pilots are clear-eyed, bouyant extroverts. They trust their machines implicitly. Helicopter pilots are brooding introverts. They know that if something bad has not happened, it is about to."

Another classic remark by a long-time military helo pilot:

"A helicopter doesn't want to fly; it just wants to kill you."

And I think those two remarks sum things up quite nicely...

Steve
10-29-2001 Over year old.
 
 
Ken B
Elite Veteran
Location: Phoenix, AZ

My hobby is crashing, I didn't know I could fly these things too. :)

My hobby is Building, Crashing, and rebuilding remote control helicopters. Once in a while I get to fly... momentarily.

I think people go through spurts. I went a good amount of time where I had no crashes. Now I have had 7 crashes...I know OUCH. What has happend is that I am in a learning stage. I discover one thing and I have to try it out. Unfortunatly, my pocket can't handle it anymore.
It's also unfortunate that I got my hands on a bad gyro, servo and engine, each in a different machine.

Ken B
10-29-2001 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Dave_D
Key Veteran
Location: Philippines

ColeOpter,

I agree with you that if you're not "pushing it", you can get on a looong time without crashing and that's what I'm doing recently. I decided to take it a bit easy on learning and it's been 3 months since since I put her in.

Prior to this, I was in Volkul's stage where it seems crashes comes in spurts. The learning stage really hits the wallet hard and I'm finally recovering from it.
10-29-2001 Over year old.
 
 
Madman
Veteran
Location: Roswell, GA

Given a fixed, familiar set of flying manuevers, crashing helicopters is no more 'likely' than crashing planks if they are properly maintainted.

I too have had 5 or 6 crashes in the last 2 years and 4 of them were 'mechanical' failures of one sort or another. I used to say 'those weren't my fault' but upon reflection, I have realized that mechanicals are typically the result of poor maintenance. Gear lash increasing in the tail? I knew it and didn't fix it. Loose head bolt? I didn't see it. Ball links worn? Kinda thought so but too lazy to replace. I haven't really seen any 'mechanical' failures in my machines that wasn't recognizable and repairable. I'm sure things 'stress' fail and that's truly not your fault. We don't own miniature x-ray and magna flux machines.

In terms of accident prone, think about it though, how many times have you held a plank 6" off the deck in an inverted hover? Fly one backwards lately? The type of FLYING you do and how much you push your personal envelope is what determines crash frequency as well. The popularity of 3D makes us crash helis more often as we 'push'. Until I started to push, I had a Shuttle that I flew 3 x a month for 4 years in plain forward flight and it never went in.

To say that helicopters require 10 x more maintenance than planks IS a fair statement.

The reason I love helicopters is that when you DO crash, it doesn't take a year of weekends to get back in the air, just money (lots).

MadMan
10-29-2001 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Doug
Elite Veteran
Location: Naples Florida....

One of the reasons for the "fixation" on crashing goes way back to the beginning of (RC helicopter) time. Unlike the plank crowd, the Heli guys always appreciated a good crash and would grade according to height, initial impact and duration of the chicken dance. This is a real difference from the reverant brooding that surrounds a plank crash.
10-29-2001 Over year old.
 
 
Mike99
Veteran
Location: Canal Winchester, OH

Crash Prone???

<>

LOL - I love this forum. We are so much different than the plankers (I am one too) but some of them will never understand why. I would like to see one of them build a "trainer" heli, using Z bend control rods terminations, and flat bottom rotors, and see how long it lasted on the "trimming flight"... ha ha ha ... and you are right - WE (heli pilots) love a good crash.

Mike99
10-29-2001 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Simmer
Key Veteran
Location: Massachusetts

"this yellow cap is cheaper to repair than that great planes extra!"

Perhaps it is becausde when we look to buy a new helicopter we always talk about how well it can survive a crash and how expensive this one is to repair over that one.

Never heard a plank guy say, "this yellow cap is cheaper to repair than that great planes extra!"
10-29-2001 Over year old.
 
 
Augusto
rrAdvertiser
Location: San Diego, CA

I seem to agree with most of you guys.
If I flew nice and gentle or "scale like" I think I would crash once in a blue moon but then I wouldn't enjoy it as much as I do.
I think what happens is that when flying airplanes there is a point that you can do everything there is to do including hovering an airplane or doing waterfalls or harrier landings or any of the "3D" type of flying where you tell yourself "ok so what's next?" and find that there is not much left you can't do.

With helicopters it is a very different game. Even Curtis or Todd can think of maneuvers they wish they could do but can't yet. It's like the imagination is the limit. Mastering a very difficult helicopter maneuver leaves you with a feeling of accomplishment that's not equaled by an airplane one and on top of that you know that if you stop practicing you won't be able to repeat it again. It's not like riding a bike it takes practice over practice.

For instance this weekend I didn't feel I was ready to deal with a crash so I just flew around did a few loops, rolls, stall turns, and some other simple pirouetting maneuvers but to be honest I got bored as hell. When I got home I didn’t feel I got my “fix” from the weekend flying. This made me realize that if I don't fly aggressively then I don't enjoy it as much. During the week I spend time thinking about maneuvers I want to try on the weekend and I fly them mentally over and over and now that I didn’t try them I feel as if I wasted a weekend of flying.

I think that in my case there is no way around it I will keep crashing because I just don’t like mild flying. Hopefully it will be less and less as I master more and more complicated maneuvers.

Avant Aurora Ultimate
10-29-2001 Over year old.
 
 
RappyTappy
Elite Veteran
Location: Las Vegas, NV

I like to push the envelope because it does build confidence and skill. I only crashed once because I pushed my skills too much after only a couple of months of flying heli's(never flew any R/C before that) I've had probably four crashes in about 3 years of flying on the tip of my skill level. I'm pretty glad I can count the crashes on one hand unlike some guys I know. I don't fly stupidly or put my heli, others, or myself at risk I just try and do stuff that I uncomfortable with instead of getting stuck in a rut. Its always about pushing forward and striving for versatility and perfection for me. When my heli does go in I'm thankful I ain't in the thing!

Chris
Rex 500
Burning them electrons :D

Forever Brothers
Mickey Tylo
10-29-2001 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
goingtojapan
Heliman
Location: Virginia Beach, Va

What do you expect.

Helicopters are like bumble bees. By law they aren't supposed to fly.
You have to respect something that "Beats the air into submition" in order to fly.
I have had my heli for 2 weeks and I have only busted a tooth of the main gear from a tail strike.


"always enjoying the flight"
10-29-2001 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Augusto
rrAdvertiser
Location: San Diego, CA

My Crashes

My crashes:

Model, Number of crashes

Vigor, 1
Raptor 50, 5
Raptor 30, 1
Sceadu, 0
Freya, 0
Fury, 1

So a total of 8 crashes in about 8 months.

Avant Aurora Ultimate
10-29-2001 Over year old.
 
 
freestyle
Veteran
Location: Redmond WA USA

How often I crash is related to two things: how hard I push myself in the air, and how obsessive I am (or ain't) about setup and maintenance on the ground. I crashed fairly often at first, but in the last two years I've only had two dumb-thumbs, and three mechanical failures. I think that a big part of that is because for the last couple years I have been working more on smoothness and less on new maneuvers. I wasn't pushing myself really hard to learn new orientations, or do stuff really low to the ground. I didn't even crash in the sim very often.

For the last 2-3 months I've been working on a couple of new things, and I crash the sim so often it's embarassing. Flying for real has been moved down a couple notches among my other priorities for now - especially since I can't afford major rebuilds the way I could back when I had a job.
10-30-2001 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
RappyTappy
Elite Veteran
Location: Las Vegas, NV

8 crashes in 8 months. I'd be so depressed. Keep up the high dedication ColeopTer

Chris
Rex 500
Burning them electrons :D

Forever Brothers
Mickey Tylo
10-30-2001 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Augusto
rrAdvertiser
Location: San Diego, CA

On the contrary, I don't think you would be depressed at all because, except for a few times (and one brain fart), if you saw what I was achieving when they happened you would've been as excited as I was. We are talking piroueting loops, inverted piroueting bouncing balls, chaos takeoffs, four-feet-high continuous flips and that kind of stuff. Besides most of the crashes were with the Raptor which I use as the "disposable-try-anything-because-it's-so-cheap-to-repair" test bed.

Avant Aurora Ultimate
10-30-2001 Over year old.
 
 
RappyTappy
Elite Veteran
Location: Las Vegas, NV

True dat, as long as your havin' some fun! Hey, thats what its all about, right?

Chris
Rex 500
Burning them electrons :D

Forever Brothers
Mickey Tylo
10-30-2001 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Mike99
Veteran
Location: Canal Winchester, OH

Accomplished Maneuver

I think if you push the envelope and complete the maneuver several times, then doink it the next day, or the next flight then it is an accomplished maneuver. Coleopter - you definately push the envelope, and some old fart like me is just happy pulling off a roll with a stall turn at the end. ha ha ha. Our crash coefficient is probably much different but our fun coefficient is close to the same.

Mike99
10-30-2001 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Augusto
rrAdvertiser
Location: San Diego, CA

"If a crash "regularly" occurs with wild maneuvers they are NOT considered accomplished.I have seen some pretty awesome maneuvers that some hovering-only pilots do right before they crash and the outcome is the same.....CRASH."

That's hilarious!

I agree with seneca and that would be the case. In mine it's different. While learning a difficult maneuver I might have one crash or none but after a while I can do the maneuver fairly repetitively without crashing and the more I practice it the easier and less risky it becomes.

As a matter of fact I usually try new maneuvers in real life after I master them completely in the simulator. I don't know why but when I test it with the real thing I forget like 70% of what I knew while flying in the simulator so I got to be careful.

Usually I try the maneuvers for the first time at high altitude but for some reason when performing them too high I don't get a good feeling of whether I'm doing it right or wrong and ultimately I come down in altitude so I can measure myself against the background as a reference. That's when it starts to get scary.

Avant Aurora Ultimate
10-30-2001 Over year old.
 
 
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Crashed? Discussion and Photos > Is crashing part of day to day RC Helis life?
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