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Autography FlightPower . Advantage Hobby . Revolution Models

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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > X-Cell Gasser. What Do You Think.
 
 
Inspector Fuzz
Veteran
Location: Austin, TX. Where fat chicks succeed.

Changes??

Howdy???
John, you must have some mods to the head of yours, or else MA has been shipping these models with different heads than they did 8 years ago. I can fly all of the basic 3D stuff on a decent glow chopper.... Backwards forward/inverted, funnels, piro-flips, etc...
I have been fooling with helicopters for the last 13 years..
Mine has a (roughly) two second roll rate... I have done funnels to the left, left rudder stick, that is, but would be terrified to try them to the right, for fear that the tailbox would shred..
These funnels, mind you, are very large, since you just can't get enough cyclic with the stock head..
Mine weighs 11.9 pounds with a little gas in the tank..
Mine has lots of power, and it does carry through huge loops well.
My beef with the model is that a lot of stuff that should have been in the kit of a $1000 helicopter 8 years ago, was not. The other beef is that the gas motor requires constant attention.
I truly hope that a lot of stuff has changed with the RC231.. If it hasn't, a lot of people that are especting something like a gas Fury 90 are going to be upset when they plunk down their $1400-$1500 bucks..
JEFF
08-19-2003 Over year old.
 
 
gjestico
Senior Heliman
Location: Vancouver, B.C.

Gasser Weight

John,
Just inquiring, You list the weight of your X-cell gasser at 11 Lbs "loaded with fuel".
A Fury with YS 91 weighs 10.25 Lbs, and 20 oz(fluid) of glow fuel weighs about 18 oz . That makes for an over 11.25 lb ready to fly Glow Fury.
The g231 weighs 54 Oz. The YS 91 for comparison weighs just over 19 oz. Thats a 2+ lb weight difference.
So if you pullled the gas engine and replaced it with a glow 91 your heli would be 9 Lbs ? Something doesnt add up. I have yet to see a gasser heli that weighed less than 12 lbs empty, on an accurate scale

Greg
08-19-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Malorie
Elite Veteran
Location: Paw squared, MI

Greg,
I couldn't agree more. My Gasser weighs in just over 12lbs dry. I don't know where you could loose a pound and a half and still have a machine that will not blow apart in flight.

Jeff,
I think your being a bit harsh on how critical the needle settings are. I usually let mine warm up a bit, run it through a loop to check the transition/midrange, after that, I fly for the day without a hitch.

As far as 3D goes, while I try to be smooth and don't do x-treme 3D, they are certainly capable of it. They love to be loaded hard. They will take all the pitch you can give them and beg for more. The Bergen has a faster roll rate then any heli I've seen. I have mine set to 75% throw so I can keep up. I will say that with the additional weight, inertia becomes an issue when you try things like tic-tocs, but if you're willing to do them bigger and a bit slower, they'll certainly handle it.

I will agree that too many people are thinking that the "Fury Gasser" is going to be a magic bullet, they are off base. A gasser will not fly like a 90 machine any time soon.

Now if you like to fly a lot, hate high glow fuel prices, don't want to deal with starter troubles, glow plugs, the glow fuel mess, the extra field support equipment, and don't mind the extra inertia, then a gasser may just be your cup of tea.

Like Jeff said earlier, there is a learning curve. The same as if you went from glow to electric, just not as tough.

Malorie

Life's a journey, NOT a destination.
08-19-2003 Over year old.
 
 
SteveH
rrProfessor
Location: Texas

Won't 3D?

John,

Please look back at my post concerning 3D and gassers. I never said the gassers wouldn't 3D. As a matter of fact I said I have watched Bill Meader fly 3D, I'v watched Malorie fly 3D, and I do some of it myself. What I said was the gassers won't 3D like a glow model, and Malorie, in her last post seemed to confirm what I'd said.

I'm not bashing the gassers, just telling it like it is. A twelve plus pound helicopter is not going to fly like a 9 plus pound helicopter with the same rotor span no matter how much power you put in it. It's just physics, plain and simple.

Oh, and I'd get that scale fixed if I were you!

SteveH

SteveH
Magnum Fuel
AMA76186
08-19-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Inspector Fuzz
Veteran
Location: Austin, TX. Where fat chicks succeed.

Postitive Suggestions....

Howdy!!
Ok, I have done a lot of pissing and moaning here so I will be positive and tell y'all what I would like to see in Gasser heli and motor design for the future.. This may get wordy, sorry.
Right now, we are limited to industrial type motors converted to model use.. They are EASY to tune IF you don't care about vibration.. A lot of times you never even hear a change you make to the needles, you just notice that the canopy or fins stopped shaking..
So.... It would be great if the motor was mounted on urethane dampers and had a belt drive.. This would isolate the motor (vibration wise) from the frame and drive train. Just tune for maximum power and let that that sucker shake rattle and roll!

Second, we need a real model specific designed gas heli motor.. I think I know what it could be.. That 1.40RX pattern motor that O.S. makes is a wonderful engine.. If they could convert it to gas it would probably have lots more power than anything we have now and it would be light and smooth.. I would prefer that it have NO flywheel and a separate electronic timing module.. A small battery for the coil is a minimal trade off to lose that heavy wheel..
While were talking about flywheels, how about losing the one on the g23 and going with a seperate ignition source?? Also, while a convenience, the pull start ought to be an option, with conventionall starting the norm.. I think that whole pull start assemble weighs .25 pound..
Maybe some clever machinist/gear head type on this forum will try some of this stuff.. I would really like to see that 1.40 gas work..
JEFF
08-19-2003 Over year old.
 
 
ImRich
Veteran
Location: Derry, NH USA

Tim,

You and I must be doing something wrong as our gassers are very reliable and cheap to fly!!

Which joker do you have? how do you like it? how are parts, support, and flight times (performance)?

I have a lot of Q's about these!

Start a separate thread if you like.

Rich

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Rich
08-19-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Billme
Key Veteran
Location: MS

I got to admit, I flew the electric Joker at IRCHA with the new MC24....What a sweet combo....It got me to thinking no doult... The climbout was awesome...If it would have had a better gyro, I would have done more...It felt that good...
Did anyone pick up the new Acrobat...Its light as a feather...I could not believe it! It also had a cspec on it...This machine will be a major contender, no doult....
This configration would also be perfect for a gasser...Maybe Gerd will do one in a gasser
Joe Howard is going to be busy when this thing hits the market
Regards,
Bill
08-19-2003 Over year old.
 
 
ImRich
Veteran
Location: Derry, NH USA

Jeff,

The current gasser is a lot differrent than the current shipping units.

Want a faster roll rate? Go get the white 3D 20 gram paddles, Don't add any other weight to the flybar and have fun! This change alone will wake up your old gasser. Be careful the first time you spin this combo up!

Want to go back to smooth slow flying, change back your paddles, or dial in about -60% expo!

Quit playing with your needles, I hardly touch mine. You must have glow envy, they are always messing with needles!


John... send me those video's of the Gasser 3Ding! But please, no divx encoded files, I can't view them and don't want to install the spyware divx codec.

Billme, tell me about the Joker! The USA headquarters is about and hour from me. I may have to go and visit them! Also, did you see MinAir's tempest gasser? What did you think? And also, how did their new ION look? Too many heli's not enough time or money!

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Rich
08-19-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Billme
Key Veteran
Location: MS

All of them were very impressive.....You guys worrying about stuff for nothing...The xcell gasser will be much simpler to setup...It will also be more rigid with its design...I am glad they stayed away from the stack frame design...The fun part has yet to come. Be humble

About what John said about Henry c on the film that he sent me...Of course henry is a lot better than most, but he makes the gasser do stuff like its no tomorrow...Steve, when you see it, you want believe it! I'll try to get it on the computer somehow, when I find someone to put it on
I'm glad that folks like Henry are getting interested in gassers...things will improve even more with these type flyers finding new ways to do things...

The electrics are really starting to get my attention...Both the Joker, and Ion were awesome...I just don't know anything about them, but I'm starting today to learn more...

Gary Wright has done some awesome work on electrics...he doesn't even have a glow anymore...It would be interesting to hear from Gary more on these topics...I'm sure we will soon..
We are living in some awesome times to see this much coming from the different Companys offering so much...ITs hard for someone to make up their mind
Many Regards,
Bill
08-19-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Malorie
Elite Veteran
Location: Paw squared, MI

Jeff,
The soft mounted gas engine has been tried. Lots of broken mounts.

The pull starter weighs 4 oz. Not worth all the hassel of removing it and carrying a starter again.

The flywheel is needed to help with idle. Besides the fact that it weighs nearly the same as an external ignition system plus battery and is 100% more reliable. The downfall is the fixed timing.

The only way you will ever see a gas machine outperform a glow machine is to go up in size and power. Like it is with airplanes, there IS a break even point. The current gas machines are just a tiny bit shy of it.

I don't think I'd want to regularly 3D something the size of the Begen Industrial Twin. If it ever went out of control, the whole flightline would have to scatter. BTW, the Industrial Twin does perform as well or better than the big blocks. They are VERY light on the sticks with TONS of spare power and are SUPER smooth.

Life's a journey, NOT a destination.
08-20-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Inspector Fuzz
Veteran
Location: Austin, TX. Where fat chicks succeed.

Thanks for the info..

Malorie,
Thanks for all the info on my suggestions..
You are right about how nimble the industrial twin is.. A couple of years ago, I stood next to Larry and Dave Storey on the flightline while Dave did some of the fastest hovering roles and flips with the IT that I had ever seen ANY heli do.... Then.. He brought it into a straight down auto and stopped it at about 3 to four feet for what had to be 4 to 5 seconds and then landed..
You would never think from looking at it that it was that nimble.. I bet you could catch thermals with it if you auto'd it with some forward speed.
JEFF
08-20-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Malorie
Elite Veteran
Location: Paw squared, MI

I've shut them down and while the head was spinning down, brought them up to a hover and landed again. At 16lbs, they are pretty amazing. I would think that from an auto (which I haven't had the pleasure of doing... YET) with the headspeed wound up, it would hover for quite a while.

When I set up a few for customer delivery, I set the negative at around -4 degrees. On a full decent, they just hover down. If you push the nose down and get some speed built up, they really wind up those 810s.

Just thought I'd share,
Malorie

Life's a journey, NOT a destination.
08-20-2003 Over year old.
 
 
pistole
Veteran
Location: Heli Land ....

If I were to buy one of these gas-graphite helis now , would the kit come with the 230 or the 231 engine ?

Thanks.
08-21-2003 Over year old.
 
 
BIGRCR
Veteran
Location: Easley, South Carolina

Yes, my gas X-Cell is quite a bit more than the old version of the Gas Graphite. This is a custom SE that I spec'ed out and Tim kitted for me, and yes it is very light. Chris Bergen, a good friend of mine was one of the first to fly it and was quite impressed with it's features and performance. The motor was in it's initial stages of breaking in and it showed great potential at the time. Of course, I flew Captain America (his bird ) and loved it also. The Intrepid gasser is one fine machine and has excellent engineering, my gasser is just a BUNCH lighter!

On the digital scales, the machine sits at 11.326 # lbs with around 4 ounces of fuel left in the tank (weighed it yesterday again, was curious).

The Gas Graphite Custom SE has essentially a Fury make-up with a Pro metal head and split gear unit and a SE front tray / collective system. It is a Fury Expert in the Gasser frame set.

-Pro metal head w/ 20 gram paddles (white).
-90 toothed driven tail split gear system.
-14 tooth pinion ( 15T to be installed).
-SE radio tray/ collective system.
-Fury Expert entire tail w/ Fury fins/ boom supports.
-rear rudder servo mount/ carbon rudder pushrod.
-700 Gamma 178 gram blades/ 105 Mah tail blades.
-new CCPM swashplate/ all 2.5 mm push rods.
-Prototype G-231 Zenoah unit
- Zimmerman stainless muffler (actually holding it back a bit).

Bill Meader is also outfitting his bird like this one. We have found that the SE front end really helps a lot and the rear rudder position is a must.

Outfitting and setting this bird up has been a lot of fun with a lot of learning experiences, and it will only get better.

Later,

BIGRCR- John Garst
08-21-2003 Over year old.
 
 
BIGRCR
Veteran
Location: Easley, South Carolina

The kit would come with the G231, a 230 will not work.

Later,

BIGRCR- John Garst
08-21-2003 Over year old.
 
 
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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > X-Cell Gasser. What Do You Think.
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