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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > X-Cell Gasser. What Do You Think.
 
 
pistole
Veteran
Location: Heli Land ....

Yup.

Thinking of getting this machine :

http://www.x-cellrchelicopters.com/1005-1gg.htm


What do you think ?
08-15-2003 Over year old.
 
 
SteveH
rrProfessor
Location: Texas

Got One

I've got one and although it flies OK, it needs a lot of upgrades from the factory in my opinion, and it costs A LOT to repair if you ding it. I had one $450 crash because the plastic rotor head block came apart in flight. It was not a pretty scene!

SteveH

SteveH
Magnum Fuel
AMA76186
08-15-2003 Over year old.
 
 
ImRich
Veteran
Location: Derry, NH USA

I have one also. I've had is since '96.

I really love this machine.

As to the 'upgrades' mentioned, the current production units already have a lot of these upgrades already installed.

One of the nice things about Miniature Aircraft is that they try to base all their heli's off the same basic design or parts. So when they come out with an improved model, you can almost always add the new designed parts to your older unit.

I've also been flying since '96 with my original plastic head. I just now went to a metal head because I am starting to fly agressivly and may try carrying a heavy load. Don't think that the plastic head is not strong enough. Like any other part in any heli, you have to keep your maintenance and inspection procedures up, any part can and will fail! All parts in a helicopter are critical to flight!

The gas X-Cell is a nice smooth flying machine. If you want it to be docile, go with the older small square paddles with the screw in adjustable weights. If you want to 3D, get the white 20gram '3D' paddles. They make the machine a totally different animal! I've done this change myself recently and it made a much larger change than going from wood blades to carbon fiber main blades (which I have also recently done).

Oh, you can't beat the price of fuel!

---
Rich
08-15-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Joe Ubaldo
Veteran
Location: Grand Rapids, MI USA

Pictures (of the new Fury Gasser)?
08-16-2003 Over year old.
 
 
derbyparty
Heliman
Location: Lexington,In.

How much does the 1005-1 GAS GRAPHITE cost
08-16-2003 Over year old.
 
 
daggit
Elite Veteran
Location: Waseca MN

I dig mine...

There are easier gassers to build. I have aluminum head, upper frame, and extended boom for camera carrying. Love the gasser


08-16-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
daggit
Elite Veteran
Location: Waseca MN

Brain S

any pics of that prototype gasser?
08-16-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Inspector Fuzz
Veteran
Location: Austin, TX. Where fat chicks succeed.

What I think about gas....

Howdy!!
This will be wordy, so you might want to skip it unless you are in a rush..
First off, I think the whole idea behing using gas is great... I also think that Bergen makes the best gasser, and that it will STILL be the best gasser even after MA comes out with another TLAR (that looks about right) engineered kit... I hope the new Fury gas doesn't require $300 in upgrades and a Bergen clutch fan unit to work well.
I have owned a Gas grapit since '96.. I just recently sold it to a local, but ended up giving his money back to him because he couldn't tune it.. I got tired of listening to the whining and didn't want the bad rap..
I grew up messing with dirt bikes, so tuning a 2 stroke gasser is not a big deal. The X-cell gas has been a fun "throw around model". Definately NOT a 3D machine, though it will fly upside down, and backwards, if you don't mind rebuilding the tail gear box often..
With regards to the tuning, IT IS HIGHLY,HIGHLY, CRITICAL!!!! Do I need to repeat that?? You might want to read it again, just to be sure you understand... This applies to ALL gassers..
If the motor on ANY gas helicopter is running even one half of one percent less than PERFECT, the helicopter will shake, vibrate fins, and absolutely drive you nuts with a heading hold gyro.. It's nothing like glow.. You can have a slobbering rich glow motor and still have OK/some gyro performance.
If I have not discouraged you yet, there is one more thing you need to know.. Have you ever gone out and flown your model after when the weather has changed dramatically? I.e. either after a cold front comes through or when it has warmed considerably? Notice how you have to mess with the needles?? With a gasser, this effect is much more pronounced, due to the leaner mixture a gas motor runs, and the fact that it must be PERFECTLY in tune..
If you just gotta have a gasser, I would get the Bergen.. If you really want to go with a MA machine, you ought to wait for the new Fury Gas.. Maybe MA learned something..
Also, you heard "IT" hear first.. When that gas Fury comes out, this forum will be flooded by unhappy lemmings who can't figure that darned old gas motor out. My prediction is that it will be a lot like it was in 95 when the Gas Graphite came out.. A lot of people bought them, 'cause it sounded like a great deal and then sold them/abandoned them when they found out how much of a learning curve was/is involved..
JEFF
08-16-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Carey Shurley
Senior Heliman
Location: Orlando, FL

The yet to be named gas kit from MA is going to use most of the features of the Tempest 3D, which is continuing to prove its durability with big block motors, hh gyros, big t/r's and very aggressive 3D manuevers. When the kit ships, it won't need any options unless you're trying to adapt it for some special purpose.

It definitely weighs more than the std Tempest so it will handle differently but is lighter than the current gas kit. The engine is the Zenoah G231 and is a big improvement over the G23.

Actually I've had good experiences with the std G23, however it does require special attention and the approach to tuning it is definitely different than with glow.
08-16-2003 Over year old.
 
 
ImRich
Veteran
Location: Derry, NH USA

Hi Jeff,

I don't know, maybe you have a bad one!

I've had my gas X-cell since '96. I learned to set it up by my self with no help and no one on the internet to help either!

I've never lost a tail box, nor broken fins due to vibration from the engines.

The only failure I ever had was a tail blade holder, and that (I believe) was due to either a manufacturing defect in the plastic (rare occurance) or from the bolts being over tightened by me. They have improved the tail blade holders now so they are stronger. But one should be careful not to tighten them so much as to 'squish' the blade holder.

Maybe I know how to tune an engine, or maybe because I didn't try to tune it like a glow engine, but I never had the issues you mentioned.

I now have the new G231PUH, this one runs smoother, cooler and stronger than the original engine. All new Gassers are coming with this new engine. So no one should be scared away.

No 3D? Ask Malorie or some of the other's about how the gassers 3D. I'm not at that level of flying yet!

---
Rich
08-16-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
SteveH
rrProfessor
Location: Texas

Rich,

Jeff is right about the critical tuning. I've read Bill Meadors set up, met with him at two fun flys, got his help, use his set up, use the oil he recommends at the ratio he recommends, and the tuning is STILL critical. Much more critical that ANY glow model I've ever had.

By the way, Bill is one fine fella, and will help anyone that asks it of him. He's just that kind of guy.

Now about the 3D, yes the gasser will 3D. However, I've watched Bill fly his gasser, I've watched Malorie fly her gasser, (they are both great pilots) and I make attemps at flying 3D with mine, but the gassers WILL NOT 3D like a glow model. I'm not saying they won't 3D like one of the big 90 size ships, I'm saying they won't 3D like a 60 size ship. I have an OS 61 WC powered Century Predator SE and it will fly CIRCLES around my gasser.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know why, as on the average they are at least TWO POUNDS heavier and with less power.

Now, having typed all this, I still like the gasser, but it is what it is and will allways be a heavy low performance helicopter. Comparing a gasser to a glow model is like comparing a dump truck to an Indy race car.

I'll get off my soap box now.
SteveH

SteveH
Magnum Fuel
AMA76186
08-17-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Inspector Fuzz
Veteran
Location: Austin, TX. Where fat chicks succeed.

@ ImRich

Howdy!!
I never said that a gasser won't 3D. I said that the current MA gasser is not well suited to it.. If you fly the thing at all hard, stuff will fail on it.
I, too, learned to set up my gasser, without the internet or the help of others. In fact, I had been to SEVERAL fun flys before I even MET another person who flew one.
Until I adopted Bill Meadors approach to tuning these things, I was never truly happy with the motor.. It now runs quite well, it is just that the slightest change in atmospheric conditions will make it unhappy and fast.. Having to fool with the needles on a near daily basis is one of the reasons I don't fly it much, anymore.
One of the problems with the internet is that you can't ever see or hear the other persons machine.. On more than one ocasion, I have talked to someone about a problem I was having only to have them say that they didn't know what I was talking about.. Upon meeting them and seeing their machine fly, I notice that it is doing the same thing. They just are either oblivious to it, or are not that particular about their performance.. This may or may not apply to you..
However you slice it, a gas motor complicates things in a helicopter.. Aside from the vibration and tuning, you have the constant threat of ignition noise and radio hits.
I am not bashing gassers in any way, I am just saying that a lot of folks are gonna buy these (Fury Gas') and not realize what they are getting into.
JEFF
08-17-2003 Over year old.
 
 
ImRich
Veteran
Location: Derry, NH USA

Jeff,

Yes, I understand what you are saying now! I see this all the time too. People don't even realise they have a shake or a rattle. I've even pointed out what I would call gross tracking problems to people.

I guess I thought your prior post was a bit harsh. I never expect my gas engine to tune like a glow, nor do I expect it to handle the same as a glow or a .61 ship (or any other glow).

But I've never had major problems with mine. I feel lucky

The internet is a wonderful thing though, I have no experienced heli pilots near me who are willing to help so I rely on RR a lot. Thanks to fine people like Bill and others, I'm learning a lot! I only wish people lived near me who could fly better than me and are willing to help.

Steve,

I think we're all in agreement here. These gassers are nice machines but can't be treated like a glow machine. Heck, the same thing goes for my gas fixed wing aircraft!

Critical tuning? Hmm.. I rarely touch my needles. I'm at about just a bit above sea level (100 to 200 ft). Yes, they are different to tune than a glow, but not as finicky as far as I'm concerned. Just different!

Dump truck to an indy race F1?? Hmm.... a fairer comparison may be something like a VW Golf to an Indy race car! No wait, I think the Indy would weigh more than the VW, but the Indy sure has more HP!

---
Rich
08-17-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
slabs
Heliman
Location: Manchester Ct.

Well I was thinking of a gasser for a 2nd machine but after reading some of these threads maybe I"ll get a Raptor .60 instead.
08-17-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Inspector Fuzz
Veteran
Location: Austin, TX. Where fat chicks succeed.

@slabs

Howdy!!
If you are looking for your "second" helicopter, i.e. you still are flying your first, I would not recomend a gasser.. You need to learn to fly better, and you should be to the point that you are not crashing due to disorientation with "normal" flying.
I you already fly well, don't crash much and are looking for something different, I say go for it. Again, at this point the best thing out there is the Bergen.. If you wanna wait, get the MA Fury.. It will be untested, though, and most new helis on the market usually have a few problems on the first release..
Hopefully, the MA Fury will NOT be made of CARBON.. IMHO this is one of the design flaws in the original X-cell Gas... Carbon transmits every vibration from the motor to everthing else.. It also acts like a big antenna, focusing all kinds of noise into your radio system.. The G-10 frames on the Bergen along with the "7 attach points" for the motor, help out alot in keeping down the shakes..
Hope this helps,
JEFF
08-18-2003 Over year old.
 
 
ImRich
Veteran
Location: Derry, NH USA

Jeff,

I don't know, you're a bit hard on the gassers! My Gas X-Cell with carbon frames was my second heli. My first is my Shuttle.

I'm still flying both.

The gasser was smooth and much easier to fly than the Shuttle.

I never had vibration problems that you talk about.

But then again, maybe I'm doing it all wrong!

---
Rich
08-18-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Inspector Fuzz
Veteran
Location: Austin, TX. Where fat chicks succeed.

Possible bias...

Howdy!!!
I know you will think highly of me if I admit to you that it is just slightly, ever so slightly, possible that I MAY have just a LITTLE, eeny, teeny, itty bitty, bit of BIAS with regard to the way MA designs some of the parts of their helicopters..
JEFF
08-18-2003 Over year old.
 
 
twguns
Senior Heliman
Location: Indianapolis, IN

Jeff and Steve, You guys in Texas must have weird air or something... I had my gasser for 2 years and it was my favorite heli because I didn't have to constantly mess with it... Just put gas in it and fly, and it flew great... I miss it, to an extent... I used BM's engine tuning guidelines and oil recomendations and NEVER had problem 1... It was the most reliable, trouble free and fun machine I had ever had, up until the Joker came along...

E-helis only now, no mess, just fun... Well, I guess I might have to have one of the E-Fury's if the chance arrises.. I does look good and much lighter than anything else with a gas engine out there...

bigTim
08-18-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
SteveH
rrProfessor
Location: Texas

Big Tim,

I didn't say I couldn't tune it, I said it was "critical" tuning. What I'm saying is on my machines, there have been two of them, 1 3/8 of a turn out on the low speed needle may be too rich and 1 1/4 turn may be too lean. You end up tuning the low speed mixture by increments of less than a screwdrivers bit thickness at a time until you get it right.

Now that is my definition of too critical!

SteveH

SteveH
Magnum Fuel
AMA76186
08-18-2003 Over year old.
 
 
BIGRCR
Veteran
Location: Easley, South Carolina

SteveH,

I don't want to upset you, but the X-Cell gas is totally capable of the most EXTREME 3D. I have an X-Cell gas Graphite SE that will do Extreme, sustained and harder 3D than any 60,80 or 90 ship that I have ever witnessed. Bill Meader has a tape of it being flown by Henry Caldwell and it will do it all and carries through manuevers better than a glow ship also. The weight is 11 pounds loaded with fuel and flies on the new G231 engine. The bird will climb radically in an inverted funnel without so much as a bog.

I have footage and may be able to also send mpeg's of it flying if anyone is interested.

Later,

BIGRCR- John Garst
08-19-2003 Over year old.
 
 
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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > X-Cell Gasser. What Do You Think.
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