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Thunder Power RC . Mikado Modellhubschrauber . GrandRC

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Bergen R/C Helicopters > Bergen Fans, lend me your experience!!!!!!!
 
 
Bartau
Heliman
Location: Atlanta, GA

Hiya guys I am a regular reader here on RR but I don't post all that much. I am getting ready to start a very intense project which is going to result in a 1/8th scale Blackhawk on a Bergen set of Mechanics. After a long process of posts across many forums I have come to the conclusion to use the following process and now I would like the input from you Bergen Fliers.

Here goes...

End Result:
1/8th Scale Blackhawk
Bergen Gas Mechanics
Bergen 4 Blade Main Rotor w/810mm's

My theorized process:
Step 1: Purchase a Bergen Gas Kit
Purpose: Learn to fly a larger helicopter, learn to fly gas

Step 2: Purchase the Industrial Twin Boom, Supports, Torque Tube, 810mm V-Blades
Purpose: Learn to fly the much larger setup

Step 3: Purchase Bergen 4 Blade Head and get another set of 810mm's
Purpose: Learn to fly a 4 Blade Head

Step 4: Once comfortable with this setup, weight test to confirm it can handle my fuselage
Purpose: To not find out after I install it that it won't work and loose my fuselage

Step 5: Install my fuselage and party hardy
Purpose: To have a damn good time after the amount of time and effort spent


Basically what I would like to know from you guys is whether or not you think this plan has a chance in hell of success. I have spent a total of 4 hours on the phone with Larry and Chirs now and I am quite optimistic about this.

The reason I am going so slow is because I currently own and fly a Raptor 30 v2. I need to go slow into such a machine as it will dwarf my poor Raptor when it is complete. I have also never flown a Gas kit or a 4 Blade Head so I wish to take each of those items on seperatly.

The whole time I am building this whole setup I will be flying my Raptor in a less 3D setup to learn more precise control, hovering and scale flight. I will also be converting my baby Raptor into a semi-scale Bell 222 or Long Ranger(Century), not sure which yet.

I was originally planning on just buying the fuse and the mechanics and just going to town but thankfully the guys on scalercheli sat me down and beat me about the head and face with a common sense stick, I need that every once in a while


Ok so on the Bergen Gas side of this here are the particulars that I am curious about. I have spoke with Chris and he is optimistic that this setup will work but at the same time has told me that he has never tested it himself so he can not guarantee anything. They don't have the time to R&D something like this which will at best yield them the sale of a $1300 kit. Have any of you tried anything this extreme on one of these yet? Does anyone have any concerns that the new Gas Kit will not be able to easily lift a 7lbs fuselage? Does anyone have any concerns as to using the eventual 4 blade head with 810's at 9:1(think that is what Larry said, I am not that good at all the gear ratio stuff yet.)

Anything that anyone can bring up now will save me a lot of time and maybe money later on. I want to get on this fairly soon since I still have Chris fairly local to pick his brain
06-19-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Bartau
Heliman
Location: Atlanta, GA

Oh boy 16 reads and not 1 responce, that can't be good...
06-19-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Al Magaloff
rrMaster
Location: 12,199 Posts- Enough Time Wasted. See Ya!

First, I think you are being too cautious. I would buy the heli from Bergen with the long boom, and fly it right off the bat, without the standard gasser in between. That heli with 810's will be a dream to fly scale. I question the four bladed head with four 810's? That can't be right? Unless the 810's for the four blade are thin cord. If that's the case, you'll be buying a set of four 810's for the four blade head. Look into the Vario Multi blade/multi axis gryo also. Make contact in scalercheli with Peter Wales.
06-19-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Bartau
Heliman
Location: Atlanta, GA

Thanks for the input rchelial, yes when I went to a 4 blade head I would end up getting a full set of 4 new blades from Vario or somewhere not using V's

Anyone else??? Anyone??? Where is everyone tonight lol
06-20-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
MikeS
Senior Heliman
Location: So. Calif.

I agree with rchelial on the blades, 810's on a 4 bladed head seems radical......(gassers are geared around 6.4 to 1...FYI).... If there are no issues on clutch ingagement with that much blade should be fine.

Building one now.......
06-20-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Bartau
Heliman
Location: Atlanta, GA

I am still really new at this so explain the blade issue for me. Other than the extreme cost why wouldn't I want to run 4 810mm V-Blades on my scale? With the mention of "thin core" are the scale blades thinner so they don't put as much load on the engine?

I didn't realize the major jump in the cost of those 810mm's, wow I really dont wanna crash them

EDIT: Hey Chris you could even step into my thread here and say hi ya know
06-20-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Chris Bergen
Key Veteran
Location: location

I"m here Dan!!!

Figure out the length of your fuse from main shaft to tail, and see if 810's will fit.

You may be able to get away with 720's.

Other than the cost difference, running 810's would work. I think probably way cool too.

Guys,bear in mind that dan wants to run a slow headspeed with a gearing change to 9:1 using a 10 tooth pinion. His all up weight will hopefully be around 20 lbs.

The Blackhawks used in the movie, Blackhawk Down, were 7 ft long and initially had 1200 mm blades on them running at 1200 RPM. The all up weight initially was 43 lbs, and they had dificulty getting them off the ground. Once they made a few changes as recommended by Larry Bergen, they were able to accomplish what I think are some spectacular flying scenes.

I don't know how big the fuse is that your looking at, but these are some things to consider.

Chris Bergen
06-20-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Bartau
Heliman
Location: Atlanta, GA

Well since there is not a lot of input I guess I will add the one suggestion into my layout. I will now plan on going directly with the Long Boom and 810's.

If anyone has any more input though I would greatly appreciate it. On the theory of going smaller than 810 I dont think that will work cause it support up to 200cm main rotor. I am thinking anything smaller than 810 will look sorta funny.
06-20-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Al Magaloff
rrMaster
Location: 12,199 Posts- Enough Time Wasted. See Ya!

Dan, bigger is definitely better here. Once you get the long boom version sorted out, all you will need to deal with later, is the four blade head. Take a look at Vario to see what blade/fuse/weight combos they put together. Sounds like a cool project!
06-20-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Bartau
Heliman
Location: Atlanta, GA

AAAAAHHHHHH!!!!!!

I just got off the phone with Larry, he is telling me quite certainly that there is no way in hell that it will work

He says that the 4 810mm's will put far to much load on the machine. He is still telling me that the only way to do this is to buy the Industrial Twin... I dont have $4500 to blow on just the mechanics...
06-20-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
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Bergen R/C Helicopters > Bergen Fans, lend me your experience!!!!!!!
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