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Advantage Hobby . Revolution Models . CarbonXtreme

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Aerobatic 3D Contest > A question for the PRO's
 
 
Ken B
Elite Veteran
Location: Phoenix, AZ

I have been wondering something for some time. Honestly this one question may never get answered either. But could generate much debate.

When a "Pro" is sponsored by a company and is given all kinds of products by his sponsors. What makes those products better than the others?

For instance, Curtis Fly’s JR, has a JR radio, has V blades on it with an OS engine. Does this make these items the best? OR that these items are provided to him so the companies can get the best pilot to show off their wears

The reasons for these questions are simple. I have heard many people say, "If Curtis uses it, it must be great". Well I have to think that that may not be always the case. My point to this is I want to be able to get the best where and when I can. Not because Joe Bag O Doughnuts is using it.

I appreaciate any incite or intelagent thought that can be offered on this.

Ken B
10-20-2001 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
BladeRunner
Elite Veteran
Location: Ontario Canada. Member of "some sort" s

A question for the pro's

Hey Ken, I'm NO pro by anyone's description,but, I think almost anything I could get for "free" would be the best for me! Mostly because I wouldn't care less if I stuffed it, cause there would be an unending supply of new parts to keep me happy. Man I can only imagine how steep my learning curve could be with unlimited parts! Not sure if that answers your question-but you know me, just gotta' put my $.02 in. hehehe----------Barry.
10-20-2001 Over year old.
 
 
DrScoles
Veteran
Location: Redmond WA

If Donavan McNabb is endorsing chunky soup is it the best tasting soup around??? :-) The people who eventually get to be reps or end up being the CY's and TB's of the world lend credibility to a product. I don't know Curtis, but I know Todd pretty well, and he wouldn't endorse something that he didn't think was a good product. I think there is a fine line between what is the "best product" out there, so much of it is derived from personal opinion and the wonderful world of marketing...which doesn't hurt to have a noteworthy pitchman.
It seems like every manufacturer makes good stuff, some make great stuff and you'll probably notice the difference in price...

Now, I think the only clear cut hands down best of anything out there has got to be the Hirobo Freya. And a close second might be the Oregon State Beaver football team....:-)

Mike Scoles
Your Unbiased Hirobo Rep and OSU graduate...
10-20-2001 Over year old.
 
 
Dyehard
Veteran
Location: Cedar Bluff, Va.

Volkul, Curtis uses JR because he gets paid a lot of money to fly for them and design helis for them. When Curtis quite flying and designing for Robbe, I asked him if there was something wrong with the heli, as that was one of the rumors floating around. He said it was purely a business decision. He had had a good relation with them for years, having used there radios since back in the eighties and they made him an offer that he couldn't turn down. It doesn't make the radios any better, for if Curtis and his dad want it to do something that it won't do, they just design what they want and put it in Curtis' radio. I remember once at a late eighties Nats watching Dave (Curtis' dad) taking the back off of Curtis radio and adjusting several circuits that didn't come stock in JR radios that the rest of us were flying. When JR came out with the their first piazo gyro, Dave designed all new electronics to go with the JR sensor, so Curtis was probably flying heading hold long before the rest of us. If Curtis wants blades made a special way, most companies will make them up for him, I know at one time he was flying NHP's that he had special ordered. What I getting at is you will never be able to buy the equipment that people like Curtis uses. Just because he fly for a particular brand doesn't mean that he uses stock equipment from that company. All of Curtis stuff, like him, is rather special.
10-20-2001 Over year old.
 
 
Steve Campbell
Elite Veteran
Location: Baton Rouge, LA

<<...you will never be able to buy the equipment (Curtis) uses...>>

WELL said, Allen. Volkul, your suspicions are well-founded. The really good guys follow the money. Can you blame them? I certainly don't. I'm pretty sure that Dwight Shilling and Cliff Hiatt are the only top US pilots who haven't changed "sponsors" at least once in the past few years. But I know some of these guys, and like Mike said, they wouldn't fly something they didn't think was good, regardless if it was free or not.

Since Curtis is the only real "professional" r/c heli pilot, in that he garners all his livelihood from it, that sets him apart from the other "part-timers". Too bad our other top F3C guys have day jobs; if Dwight Shilling, Wayne Mann, and a couple others were factory pilots like most of the top Japanese F3C guys, I suspect the US team would be simply unbeatable.

Steve
10-21-2001 Over year old.
 
 
Ken B
Elite Veteran
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Here's waht got me thinking

Here's what got me thinking. V-blades, it seems they are the talk of the town after the Worlds. What I found interesting is that in Curtis's Q&A book he says NHP's are great. Now he and allot of the top pilots are flying the V's. I am curious what other blades where flown at the Worlds. But alas, I probably never will know.

For me at my present skill level I can only tell the differences in flight between wood and carbon blades. Trying to figure out which carbon blades are better than another would be beyond me. That's kind of why I watch the folks that are better than me to make that decision for me. So when everyone is flying one brand that's when I go OK, what else is there? Cause that can't be all there is.

Please don't misinterpreted what I'm saying. I like V's and I have a set on my Freya, (cause they only cost me $50) But I don't want to replace them at $120. So I am always looking for good blades at better prices.

Just trying to get a little perspective on things.

Ken B
10-21-2001 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Dyehard
Veteran
Location: Cedar Bluff, Va.

Thank you, David, I was going to say the same about Wayne. He is very much a professional and very much deserving of the title. I agree with you, Cliff if the worlds ultimate heli modeler. Where everyone else has twenty four hours in their day, Cliff goes like he has forty eight. Steve, you are right, those top flyers wouldn't endorce something bad, but like a race car driver who truely believes that Ford or Chevy makes a real good stock car, that doesn't mean they use the stock product when competing for that company. It turns out to be pretty easy for them, all the helis, radios, engines and blades they endorce really are good products.
10-21-2001 Over year old.
 
 
Ken B
Elite Veteran
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Dyehard,

You mentioned something that got the wheels spinning. Perhaps the Worlds nats and etc.. needs to have 2 different classes of flyers. Stock for those who preform with the very things the machine comes with. Then a modified class, if you change something from original then you are modified? Whynot? RC cars use these, it could work in heli's too.

Just a thought

Ken B
10-21-2001 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
penguin
Heliman
Location: Ipswich UK

The fact that a Pro uses a certain piece of equipment (or is sponsored by a company) may not mean that it is the best piece of equipment. But if it is used in a competition by the pro, and the pro gets a good score, it shows that the equipment will perform well under the right conditions. However, the skill of the user is I believe the most important factor in flying helis . Assuming the equipment doesn't break, then even if you had an exact clone of the heli and radio that the pr was using, I would expect them to thrash the pants off of one of us.
Gareth
10-21-2001 Over year old.
 
 
Steve Campbell
Elite Veteran
Location: Baton Rouge, LA

David,

I didn't realize Wayne had moved into "pro" status; good for him. And Dwight sells insurance; I don't think it's a "side job", but you never know...

Ken, re NHP blades; Curtis had some kind of contractual agreement requiring him to fly NHPs; I know for a fact he wanted to fly V Blades after Vic got his act together (four or so years ago), and relatively recently he became sponsored by Vic.

I agree 200% with Gareth; just because the "big dogs" use something doesn't mean it is best for YOUR application. As far as blades are concerned, it is definitely a buyer's market out there; all kinds of quality choices available.

Steve
10-21-2001 Over year old.
 
 
Ken B
Elite Veteran
Location: Phoenix, AZ

But!

But if you can't get the same equipment as was so politly mentioned early on, what's the point? THere will be no chance that I can fly like the pros Nor do I intend to give up my presnet career path to persue that life. I just would like to have the good stuff too or at least have a clue as to what the good stuff is.

Ken B
10-21-2001 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
penguin
Heliman
Location: Ipswich UK

I think that within the size classes, there is reasonably good equipment for all pockets. I don't think any of the manufacturers set out to produce cheap shoddy equipment. So apart from the odd case where an engine is badly designed, or a radio malfunctions, any equipment should be fit for it's use. For example, someone with a modest pocket could afford a gyro and heli to allow them to complete auto's etc. with a lot of practice. Another gyro might perform better and cost a lot more, but this is a hobby, it should be fun. Go for the brands that sponsor if you like, an engine probably performs in proportion to it's size compared to others by the same brand, if you get what I mean.
People on the newsgroups say that the FAI (or is it F3C? I dunno) could be completed with a .30 nexus. According to them the competitions do not restrict the person's heli equipment. However, cost will restrict you in what you learn. I am a beginner, and £200 is going to be a large investment, let alone the £700 (I have decided on the ff9) it is going to take me to get a good new radio, heli and field equip up and running. I don't mind this initial outlay, and I am sure I will enjoy it, and Raptors round here are around £220. If I crash it (badly), it is going to hurt my pocket a lot, and this is going to put me off doing any aerobatics in the near future, but I think that aerobatics and flying manouvers are an important part of this sport/hobby, and the Raptor is meant to be reasonably capable of 3D out of the box (you know what I mean, bit of glue etc.etc.). For scale flight, there is a difference, a completely different kettle of fish, but I don't think that was what you were asking.
Gareth
10-21-2001 Over year old.
 
 
butch r
Senior Heliman
Location: Alma, Kansas

Competing for Points

I'm not new to the hobby but I am new to the formalities of the competition part. 25 yrs ago being raised in a motocross family when we went to various races we would compete for points in the various classes for an eventuall year end placings and qualify for championship races. Does the same take place at funflys? I've never attended a heli funfly (but I plan on attending several). Do people compete at them perhaps to go to a district then on to a regional and etc? Are the Nats by invitation or are they open?
10-21-2001 Over year old.
 
 
Dyehard
Veteran
Location: Cedar Bluff, Va.

Steve, Wayne has been a "Pro" since he started working for Miniature, that was his only sorce of income, even though it included more than flying. Since leaving MA, his sole income has been as a pilot, first for Sanwa and now Kyosho/Futuba.
Ken, you do get the good stuff. The reason that you have the all the good helis, radios and blades is because the top pilots helped develop those items in competition. What you can buy off the shelf now is very close to what the development pilots fly in competition, the changes on their helis are usually fairly small and made to optimize the heli for their own style of flying. Case in point, remember Cliff, the one who actually works for a living. His X-cell Pro was very close to stock, the biggest changes were the rotorhead, which was the older Fai head, which you can still buy, I think, and the tail rotor gear box, which was turned to the opposite side from normal, you can do that with the parts the come in the kit. Of course, there is the other side of the coin, if I remember correctly, Dobasi's Caliber that he use in the Worlds was almost completly custem, it didn't look at all like Wayne Mann's Caliber, but the next version of the Caliber may include some of those changes. The market being what it is, what you buy will never be too far behind what is being developed. If you keep your eyes and ears open, you can even buy or make the changes to your heli to make it into exactly what Curtis is flying. Of course, that will only last about twenty four hours.
10-21-2001 Over year old.
 
 
Ford Rollo
Senior Heliman
Location: Surprise, AZ

this has been said in one way or another in the replies already posted. But I've had a chance or two to take a good look at Curtis' helis that he brings to various fun-flies. Without getting specific, I know for a fact that he has had a couple of MA parts on his JR heli and I'm sure his dad customizes his radio as needed to perform various tasks he decides he needs.

I agree with the idea that FAI (F3C) competition could be flown with a Nexus or a Raptor or whatever. It's practice, set-up, practice, luck, practice, set-up and more practice that makes the good guys winners!

Ford
10-22-2001 Over year old.
 
 
Eagle
Senior Heliman
Location: Australia

Doesn't matter what product the person uses, it comes down to the nut at the end of the sticks.


Cheers
10-22-2001 Over year old.
 
 
RappyTappy
Elite Veteran
Location: Las Vegas, NV

I heard Curtis does all sorts of modifications to his Vigor that is certainly not stock. Also, JR takes care of the man and thats what keeps him around. Heck I'd fly for anyone who would take care of me and give me free stuff. Nice deal.

Chris
Rex 500
Burning them electrons :D

Forever Brothers
Mickey Tylo
10-22-2001 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
freestyle
Veteran
Location: Redmond WA USA

For instance, Curtis Fly’s JR, has a JR radio, has V blades on it with an OS engine. Does this make these items the best? OR that these items are provided to him so the companies can get the best pilot to show off their wares?

I suspect it's a little of both. The simple fact that Curtis switched to JR does not mean that JR is the best, but his influence certainly made JR products better than they were.

Curtis comes to a fun-fly in my area ever year, but he's never brought an Ergo with him, even after he signed up with JR. Instead he started bringing prototypes of a new design. Later on, JR started making the Vigor, which uses some of the ideas that Curtis had. Then came the Vigor CS, which uses more of his ideas. There will probably be a third Vigor before long, unless Curtis has some brilliant new idea that requires a significant design change and merits a new name.

Wouldn't it be great if the fuel tank was in the back where so fuel level would be visible? They could call it the "Visor."

When you start looking at the top machines from any brand, they're all pretty good. It doesn't make a lot of sense to compare between them except as they suit your personal preferences for engineering, or customer support, or price/performance. Big name pilots just help a manufacturer make better products, and help you separate the wheat from the chaff - Todd Bennett probably would not have switched from Hirobo Freyas to MFA Sport 500s or Revolution Hoverstars at any price... unless they let him design a new machine, as JR did for Curtis.
10-22-2001 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Steve Campbell
Elite Veteran
Location: Baton Rouge, LA

<<...Vigor...ideas that Curtis had...>>

The Vigor is definitely a winner.

Makes you wonder who designed the Voyager? I wonder if they've had him shot yet???

Steve
10-23-2001 Over year old.
 
 
ed vega
Key Veteran
Location: nyc, queens

curtis has made the rounds with just about all the products and heli's, giving everyone a fair shake over the years as champ..

I remembers the days when he was a flying a GMP competitor (hirobo) .. I used Sitar rotor blades considered them the best at one point .. so did the rest of the flying crowd , but the newer ones are good too, sigsaw gp2'/4s are great .. hi products, and NHP's, etc... it depends on what you like , the skill set .. rotor system , and the freebees ..
10-23-2001 Over year old.
 
 
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Aerobatic 3D Contest > A question for the PRO's
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