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Century Helicopter . MTA Hobbies . Model Rectifier Corp

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Aerial Photography and Video > Photography Insurance
 
 
Angelos
Key Veteran
Location: nr Oxford, OX11, UK

I am still not convinced that the standard business insurance will cover you for flying a heli. Well my car is a tool I use for getting there to take pictures... so I guess I don't need insurance for that either! It doesn't make sence.
09-03-2003 Over year old.
 
 
airshares
Senior Heliman
Location: Camarillo, CA

Customers

If people are buying Johns equipment and obtaining insurance, like he says, why not ask his customers for their insurance company names? They wouldn't have that complicated policy that John has, they would have the one that all of your are looking for too. Maybe John can put you in touch with his customers that obtained insurance.
09-03-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
daggit
Elite Veteran
Location: Waseca MN

John,

got the battery, thanks. slim little sucker!
09-03-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
daggit
Elite Veteran
Location: Waseca MN

Quote 
insurance companies haven't written it out so when you call and they say no your not covered it would have to exclude the coverage in the policy and most don't.


EXACTLY!

If a fella had to ask his insurance company for clearence to perform each and every task before he performed it each day.... no one would be able to leave his house...

JEZUS... don't jaywalk... you might not be covered for that.

even if you crashed your insured car they can still deny your claim, but I still drive
09-03-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
jbatruch
Heliman
Location: Liverpool, NY,USA

Insurance

:) Gentleman, I have beren keeping an eye on these posts for a while now. I understand peoples concerns with regards to insurance, and I agree 100% with them.

I spoke with John some time ago about purchasing a system from him, and was truly excited about the possibilities. I will admit that at the time of that conversation, Insurance never crossed my mind, however John was very informative and forthcoming with everything I DID ask. After speaking that day with John, I began the task of checking out the market potential for that type of business. The interest has been awesome. I have decided that I will be purchasing a complete system from John in the very near future.

I AM NOT WRITING THIS POST TO TAKE SIDES, JUST TO PROVIDE SOME POSSIBLE VALUABLE INFO FOR PEOPLE WISHING TO USE IT!

After reading all of these posts with regards to insurance, I too became alarmed and somewhat disheartened at the possibility of not being able to get AFFORDABLE insurance. I have spoken with a few writers and THERE ARE possibilities. However I don't do business based on possibilities, only on a written committment for insurance.

But I have to admit that I, being as impatient as I am, decided not to wait for the insurance companies response....So I looked elseware.

GUESS WHAT!

I spoke with 2 different News agencies willing to cover me under their insurance (still allowing me to own and operate this under my own business name, and being under their insurance as I contract to other companies, ie. realestate,landscapers,golf corses, ect.)

The hitch is that the cost of the ins. binder is to be worked off doing Breaking News as well as other News stories of local interest. Once the cost of the Binder is paid off, I have to give them 10% off any future work I perform for them, as well as having to sign an agreement not to work for other local News orginazations.

It is my intentions to proceed with this agreement, if I feel that insurance on my own becomes unaffordable, or unavailable.

Just figured I would pass this info on, as it may work for some of you also. The News media is hungry to have something cutting edge that others don't have. So do what needs to be done to achieve your goals. Be creative, and if it means giving up something to achieve your ultimate goals i'snt it worth it?
Additionally, while doing breaking news and other stories, they will be promoting my business, so as in a short time, I WILL not have to worry about affordable insurance, cause I plan on being successful.

This all happened for me within a weeks time of my first meeting with my first TV station.

SO GET GET EM !

Best Wishes, Jim
09-03-2003 Over year old.
 
 
dgxco
Senior Heliman
Location: Greenville, SC

Lot of Bull

Sorry, I do not believe that only 10% of the people seeking insurance cant get it. That is a salesmans line of bul^$%^ if I ever heard one. I wanted to do this as a P/T business and I have been flyinng R/C for a long time, I started with a FP Cricket before anyone knew what a gyro was, so I have plenty of experience more than most. Further more I have owned other business including importing and selling racing motorcycles from Europe. I did not have trouble getting coverage for that and I dont believe that I am an idiot as implied. Lets face it if you are making and selling hardware then you would do all you can to paint a rosey picture and say all is well and the ones who are without are at fault. Insurance is different from state to state and this line of "business" is so odd that the mainstream insurance companies dont care and dont want the business. The risk far outweighs the premiums thaey can earn period.
Sure if you can tag on to a TV stations policy just as some of the video R/C pilots do out in CA filming music video etc., insurance is a given, but for the "regular" guy trying to earn a few bucks that is ridiculous to think about. Not one bit of concrete information has been given by a hardware mfr or seller only " yes it is available" statements.
Just as others have requested lets see the proof! I have a airfoil unit and the manufacturer wont help?

Dark Angel
09-04-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Angelos
Key Veteran
Location: nr Oxford, OX11, UK

Insurance UK

OK, not applicable to you guys in US, but I noticed that a few people from UK follow this thread. I wrote to BMFA yesterday to confirm that insurance is available for us. Below is their reply as well as my email to them. Yep, we can get insurance for just £50 (around US$80) that covers two pilots!

----------------------

Hi Angelos,

You will need separate traders insurance it is £50 (you can also
have another pilot on this if you wish). You will also need to take
your 'B' Test. I can give you the contact details for your local
Achievement scheme co-ordinator, and traders info if you give me
you address.

Kind regards
Gemma (BMFA)

> Dear BMFA,
>
> I have taken several aerial photos from my RC helicopter for my own
> interest and with very satisfactory results. The opportunity has now
> arose to make some money by taking aerial photos of our new facilities
> at work and perhaps other places in the future. I am thus wondering if
> my standard BMFA insurance is covering me for such -paid- form of
> flying. If not, how about the "model traders insurance"? I don't have
> a B certificate yet, but I am sure I can get one right away if I need
> to. Of course all BMFA guidelines are followed allowing sufficient
> distance from car park, buildings, people, etc.
>
> Best regards,
> Angelos
09-04-2003 Over year old.
 
 
jbatruch
Heliman
Location: Liverpool, NY,USA

Clarification

Gentleman, I just wanted to clarify what I stated yesterday. For ANYONE wishing to do this part time or full time, THE BEST way to promote is with free advertising.

If insurance is an issue, contact a local TV station, and see about doing what I am seting up. ( as stated in my earlier post) For the short run, you will be in the TV Stations pocket, but you WILL STILL be allowed to schedule other jobs and work other sites UNDER THEIR INSURANCE .

Yes, it might be a pain in the butt for a while, but think about it!.....Free advertising, and with their help your geting in the air. Once you have paid off their binders cost...with your labor.....I will bet that you will see enough profit to justify in your mind spending bigger sums of money for insurance......and there you have it....YOU'VE GOT INSURANCE!

However if you still don't want to pay big premiums......just stay on with the station, under their insurance and keep taking advntage of their free advertising for your business.

I think most of you will find it takes little effort to set this up, and the rewards are endless.

Best Wishes, Jim
09-04-2003 Over year old.
 
 
dgxco
Senior Heliman
Location: Greenville, SC

No new news.

I was hoping for a bunch of insurance contacts or at least some leads!
Nothing has been put on the table that gives any positive outlook in my eyes. I dont have a TV station to fly for nor do I want to do that type of business, I have been turned down by a vast array of insurance companies, yes I am up front about my hardware and purpose. I want to be covered in case of a mishap not to merely say I have insurance..
So my Airfoil collects dust and my Bergen units are expensive platforms that I can use to take pictures of myself and my field for recreational purposes only, not what I had planned and despite what some say uninsurable. As stated earlier only Larry Bergen was up front with me about this and confirmed that insurance was a BIG problem and probably not available. CAVEAT EMPTOR

Dark Angel
09-04-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Obsessive
Key Veteran
Location: 41.73N 71.41W

From a different perspective, I've been considering getting into the "fee for" heliphoto/video business.

As an engineer, I approached my professional liability rep. about the topic, with the idea of desiring to perform this service for the application of construction progress documentation. He said something on the order of insurance would not be offered directly, that he would have to go to some kind of "pool", and it would likely be in the range of 5K~6K annually.

So, it looks like the best chance you have is to hook up with someone and get carried by them; but of course this will only cover you for that client.

Otherwise, it's just a bad choice for a full-time business...ranks up there with "porcupine on a stick".
09-04-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
John Christense
Heliman
Location: Palm Beach, Florida

Insurance

Someone here obviously have an axe to grind with AirFoil, and has have turned this thread to crap. It could have been a helpful discussion as how to get insurance. But I will try anyway.

Just because someone is not able to get insurance, does not mean a manufacturer is liable for that, and does not mean that insurance is not out there.

Try going to Home Depot and buy a screwdriver. After practicing with your screwdriver you get pissed because Home Depot does not help you get a job as a mechanic. I mean, hell, you bought the screwdriver from them, so they are responsible for you getting a job. -right? Same deal. John produces a product that can be used for aerial photography. Nowhere on his site does he say that it's easy to get insurance. Nowhere on his site does he tell you that he will hold your hand all through the start-up, find your customers for you and maintain your heli.

When I bought my systems from John, I bought them to be strapped under my airships for aerial photography. I later bought a couple of heli's also. John was very upfront with the fact that insurance was a problem for some people.

I have been insured through Saint Paul Insurance for a number of years without any claims. When I added the HeliCam part to the coverage it cost me an additional $ 866 per year, which I have later found out is extremely cheap. Funny thing is that they would not cover my R/C Airships, so those I have insured through IMC Agency for $550 a year (they don’t cover heli’s). Both are 2 mill liability policies.

Someone mentioned that Lloyds of London would write a policy for $5K per year. If this is a fact, it seems to be a great option for those of you who do not have an extensive business insurance record. $5K for insurance is only $416 a month. If that’s a big deal for you to pay, you are probably in the wrong business. I have just started doing HeliCam work, but in the first week of actively soliciting customers in Commercial Real Estate, I have signed a contract with one company that’s worth about $1600 per month (Bi-weekly shots of 4 construction projects for their website and investors to follow the progress. $200 per site. Takes me 45 minutes per site including driving time to get there). The other customer is a land surveying company. So far they have booked 6 sites to be shot. I charge them $250 per session. (They used to pay $500 per session for full-scale heli photography.) That’s 3 days of my time that month that’s bringing in about $3100. Well enough to pay for insurance, fuel, gear and the $20 per hour I pay my photographer. And I have 27 days left of that month. And even better, these sites are big empty construction sites with no people to fly over. I strongly believe that making $10K per month is within reach if you are dedicated and a good sales person with the ability to present you company in a professional way.

BTW, I am in no way affiliated with AirFoil. I have never met John Ohnemus, but I have been extremely happy with his outstanding product support.

John Christensen
www.airshipamerica.com
09-04-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Smithprod
Veteran
Location: Oklahoma

This thread has turned to complete crap and personal bashing thanks to timber. John at Airfoil makes an excellent product and has always been nothing but helpful. This success obviously pisses off some maggots out there, so they make it there goal to disrupt things and attack John.

Anyone that knows John or has dealt with him, knows that he is honest and helpful as they come, it's just a shame he has to deal with this garbage.

Brad
09-04-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
daggit
Elite Veteran
Location: Waseca MN

what Brad said...

I second the that.

I have nothing but praise for the "service after the sale" I got from Airfoil.

It's rather amusing that the people talking crap seem to have nothing to show in the way of aerial photography. When it comes to running a business some people are thier own worst employee.
09-04-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
daggit
Elite Veteran
Location: Waseca MN

I think John is in the business of selling camera mounts.

Do you get your car insurance from your Ford dealer?
09-04-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Dr. Fibinotchi
Key Veteran
Location: Sioux Falls SD

Smithprod

Sorry you feel that way. Most of us on this thread do watch it and try to get some good out of it. The thoughts and ideas of some will never replicate to everyone. He is mad and I understand that from him hitting the nail on the head so many times there isnt a nail anymore.

In the future I hope the bashing would stop and something positive and grow from this. Timber if you still feel the need.. PM.

I will share what I know as far as insur when/ if I do get any. I dont hold my breath anything coming of it. There is what 1% of heli guys going into this work? If we did a poll how many 'companies' out there do this work on a continuing buisness. Maybe less than 10-15 legit?
09-04-2003 Over year old.
 
 
daggit
Elite Veteran
Location: Waseca MN

If I couldn't then nobody could (never had an accident) so ...... HELL YA!
09-04-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
daggit
Elite Veteran
Location: Waseca MN

well if nobody could get insurance and it was illegal to drive without it then nobody would drive would they?
09-04-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
dgxco
Senior Heliman
Location: Greenville, SC

St Paul Insurance

Earlier there was a post stating that St Paul had provided some insurance, so I decided to contact them immediately. Here is the reply:

Thank you for your inquiry. The St. Paul does not offer the type of
insurance coverage you are seeking.

Sincerely,

Steve Langer
Marketing & Distribution

Doesn't sound like they want the business now do they?

Dark Angel
09-04-2003 Over year old.
 
 
daggit
Elite Veteran
Location: Waseca MN

If you have a pink Cadillac you can have a party in the back and wave to the girls but you couldn't peel out of sight and your car would never wear out (except for the interior)

.
09-04-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
daggit
Elite Veteran
Location: Waseca MN

well we're talking about what to do with a car you can't drive aren't we? good thing this is posted in the proper dept. so we can remember what the topic was...
09-04-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
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