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Scale Model RC Helicopters > Scale delima
 
 
adminaeg
Heliman
Location: Charleston, SC

Looking to start my first scale heli. At the top of my list are three Vario models; the BK117, Bell 430 or MD 500E. Any suggestion, pros or cons? I want a multi head heli and heard that the Vario brand fly really well. I have been flying helicopters for about 3 years now and I have under my belt the JR 30 Vennture, Miniature Aircraft Excel and the Predator Condor. I appreciate any help RR community can provide.
10-14-2008 02:32 AM
 
 
Havoc
Key Veteran
Location: Ky.

MD500E

I wish all scale questions were this easy.
10-14-2008 02:42 AM
 
 
Drkhorse0646
Heliman
Location: Norfolk, Va - USA

BK117's look good and I havent seen many flying. Then again the MD500 is always a classic good looking bird as well.

B400 500T ds3400G
10-14-2008 03:14 AM
 
 
adminaeg
Heliman
Location: Charleston, SC

Guys,

Thanks for the quick response. The 500E was at the top of my list, but I was looking at the 430 because I am interested in a retract model. The BK117 because we have the MUSC Meducare full scale about two miles away from me. The model left off my list was the MD 900 Notar, I don't want to go back to nitro, but very interesting though
10-14-2008 03:14 AM
 
 
Havoc
Key Veteran
Location: Ky.

I had no reason for saying 500 other than I like it and you can loop it and still call it scale flight . You just need to pick one that you love because you are the one that will be stuck throwing the elbow grease to it and it better keep your interest up. I've heard a good argument against retracts because you don't always see the little holes in a grass field when you land. But that wouldn't stop me. Your choice of mechanics and how much they affect the scale interior might be a factor as well.

Quote 
The BK117 because we have the MUSC Meducare full scale about two miles away from me.

That could be very handy.
10-14-2008 03:41 AM
 
 
Drkhorse0646
Heliman
Location: Norfolk, Va - USA

Could you even do the MD 900 in electric. Im sure it would be quite the project but very interesting at the same time.

B400 500T ds3400G
10-14-2008 06:34 AM
 
 
paul999
Senior Heliman
Location: ilford essex

hi

if you have access to the full size heli ie the bk117 then this might be the best option as long as they are ok for you to take lots of photos of the heli,and belive me you will be back to take pics many times there is always something you need more pics of,i guess it depends on how much detail you are going to do
good luck with what ever you decide to do

regards
paul
10-14-2008 10:58 AM
 
 
adminaeg
Heliman
Location: Charleston, SC

Thanks for all the posts. I have narrowed it down to the Vario large 500 and the 430. I 'll let you guys know. The BK117 would be awsome but not 100% sure about the two part (angled) tail drive system. I like the staight shot of the other two.

Thanks again,

Aastan
10-14-2008 04:10 PM
 
 
Airwolf crazy
Senior Heliman
Location: Lancaster, PA

Greetings,

If you go wit hthe Vario BK 117 the Angled Tail Drive is not hard to work with. The gear box goes together fast and the placement is is easy to get to and work on.

Here is the image of the same gear box in my EC 145.



I tacked the wood in place with thick CA and then ued JB Weld to fix the wood down. It is solid and the tail works just fine.

Christopher
10-14-2008 04:48 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Copter Doctor
Elite Veteran
Location: daleville/ft.rucker, al

Quote 
Could you even do the MD 900 in electric.
i know it has been done as one was flown at the last dalton Ga scale event.

drive a rotary, fly a rotorcraft
10-14-2008 07:12 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
adminaeg
Heliman
Location: Charleston, SC

Quote 
Greetings,

If you go wit hthe Vario BK 117 the Angled Tail Drive is not hard to work with. The gear box goes together fast and the placement is is easy to get to and work on.

Here is the image of the same gear box in my EC 145.



I tacked the wood in place with thick CA and then ued JB Weld to fix the wood down. It is solid and the tail works just fine.

Christopher


The gears are resin right? My condor and other gassers I see have the metal tail gears. Is there an advantage for the angles drive to use resin. Never flown the Benzin mech but am using it for my project. Does the tail drive use resin gears, if so, Is anyone changing this out?

About the multi head, since it will be my first, I am a little weary about the two bolt Vario grips. I don't know about the damping, and there are many claims that his multi head doesn't require any special mixing or gyros, but to not have any lead lag or are the blades flexible to that flapping can occur. Seems that the head will be very touchy if it offers no flexibility. Are there better alternative multi heads. If anyone can squash this and set me straigt that would be great (a lot of cash to get it wrong, you know).
10-14-2008 08:16 PM
 
 
doorman
Elite Veteran
Location: E.Berne, NY

Welcome To The "Dark" Side!!!!!

Hello adminaeg

You are well on your way to another GREAT part of this hobby..... If you check my gallery, you will see my 500E (its the one NEXT to the girl!!!!) (Bill has good taste!!!!) and you will also see the 5 bladed head....(the blades were not painted yet, but they are now!!!!)
The Benzin makes an excellent base and Vario has just about everything you need to make one great looking scale model.... and the mechanics fly as smoooooooooth as they come.....
The 5 blade head is not hard at all.... I do have a Helitonix mixer on it with a 401 on the elevator only and it is set so low that it most likely isn't doing much of anything... the multi's (anyones) will take some time to get used to and the timing (while flying) is a "different" feel then a fly bar head, but it is completely doable!!!!
In my gallery, you will also see my Benzin Trainer with the 5 blade head, just so that I could get the feel of it and fly it a bit prior to setting it into the 500.....no problems at all.....
Good luck and as Copter Doctor mentioned, there was a Vario NOTAR at the Dalton Georgia event this year and it is looking VERY PROMISING.... bottom line is pick the machine that you like the best, as Bill noted.... you are the one that is going to be "rubbing" it until it is done, so you had better like it.... if you like that 117 then get down there and start shooting pic's.... if you want a great "FIRST" (these things are like potato chips... can't just have one!!!!) scale machine then do the 500.... I like them ALL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Good Luck, Stan

If there is a cure for this, please don't tell me about it!!!
10-14-2008 09:00 PM
 
 
adminaeg
Heliman
Location: Charleston, SC

Quote 
Welcome To The "Dark" Side!!!!!

I see that I have a lot of "Fathers" to choose from...

Thanks for the excellent advise, I do feel some comfort now embarking on this new endevor. Great pics in the gallery doorman. I keep telling myself it doesn't matter which one I choose it will just be the first of many.

Here is a shot of the Meducare BK117. I am an employee with the hospital (IT) and right before I was hired on, about 6 years ago, they use to give rides in it.

Electric start, is it worth it?

Thanks again

10-14-2008 09:23 PM
 
 
Christopher J
Key Veteran
Location: Kansas City, MO Californian lost in land of Oz

If it were my choice between those helis I'd go with the BK117, reason being is the size of the fuse, all the upper opening hatches plus the rear doors and cabin doors all open. Put Benzin mechs in and you get a nice scaler with no smoke.

Christopher J
East Coast Vario Field Rep
"Still all set & Flying the original"
10-15-2008 01:07 AM
 
 
doorman
Elite Veteran
Location: E.Berne, NY

Benzin Conversion!!!!

How about an electric Benzin in there!!!!
The conversion kit is available and it makes for a great flying unit.... And no electric starter required!!!!

Stan

If there is a cure for this, please don't tell me about it!!!
10-15-2008 02:31 AM
 
 
adminaeg
Heliman
Location: Charleston, SC

I've been wanting to go GREEN, but am spoiled by the 30-45min flight times and am still a little afraid of the cost of 8S,10S and 12S lipos to get comparable flight times. My Predator has the jewel and with it I can fly all day with one 2400nimh pack.
10-15-2008 02:42 AM
 
 
doorman
Elite Veteran
Location: E.Berne, NY

Long Flight Times

I hear what you are saying about the long flight times and I still have all 3 of my Benzines on Coleman and Amsoil so that there is no smell.... But after messing with the electrics (small ones up to 50 sized) for the last couple of seasons and then seeing the larger ones fly at IRCHA and Dalton, I am beginning the transition..... by the end of this winter I hope to have at least 2 of them converted (both scale machines) and possibly the third also.... we will see.... with a scale machine, I have found that about 6-8 minutes is PLENTY per flight.... but pulling 12-15 minutes from a pack doesn't seem to be that big of a deal any longer.....
Just something that you may want to consider...... and you cannot beat the convenience or the smooooooooth of the electric!!!!! JMHO and I am still considered a motor head!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Good luck with your choice!!!!! Let us know!!!!! Stan

If there is a cure for this, please don't tell me about it!!!
10-15-2008 01:25 PM
 
 
paul999
Senior Heliman
Location: ilford essex

im building a turbine ec145 the angled gear box has metal gears and i found the setup and placement easy to do than i thought so dont let the tail put you of the BK117 if thats the one you would like to do,im sure you will get loads of help and advice from the guys on here
I do have a build thread on here serch for myec145 build and have a look

regards
paul
10-15-2008 03:30 PM
 
 
heliman53
Senior Heliman
Location: Goose Creek,SC

I am in Charleston and have a few Vario Helis and I am preparing to start a 500 E using Benzin mechanics.I have built a lot of Scale machines in the past and would be glad to help. Craig B
10-15-2008 05:24 PM
 
 
adminaeg
Heliman
Location: Charleston, SC

heliman53,

Took you long enough to get intouch with me. My heart almost stopped when I read you are in Charleston. Just sold my Predator Condor to help fund this project. Would be great if we could talk, I have been reading everything here on RR and other sources and my head is spinning. It cleared up a little with all the responses and advise I have been getting so far. Sent you a PM. Thanks
10-15-2008 05:40 PM
 
 
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