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CarbonXtreme . Midland Helicopters . HeliProz

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Aerial Photography and Video > HeliCommand Autotrim
 
 
Qinetiqemc
Heliman
Location: Somerset - UK

I have set the software for autotrim and gyro. I have a 7C and Channel 5 is used for the gyro (Aux grey wire). I have used switch H (spring loaded). If I set the end points for CH5 the first number, at 35%, sets gain in HH and the second number a value greater than 50% triggers autotrim. When I flip the switch I can see the box on the diagnose tab check. If the Collective is above 50% then the values for Internal trim on the RC & trim tab change from the defaults.
Can anyone tell me if what I have done is correct?

Ian
09-24-2008 11:02 PM
 
 
Qinetiqemc
Heliman
Location: Somerset - UK

After a bit more reading I found out that when in the Autotrim and Gyro mode that it doen't control the gyro gain but gyro mode. The gain is set in the software. Mine happened to be set at 50% and I have now changed it back to the defult setting of 65%. Seems to be OK on the ground but the weather is against me at the moment to try it out flying.
10-05-2008 12:23 AM
 
 
DenisS
Key Veteran
Location: Essex, UK

Also be aware that you have to be careful that the autotrim position doesn't switch the gyro to rate mode. This is explained in the instructions quite well, although the fact that you are using a sprung switch means that it would only be in rate mode temporarily. It seems like you have ot worked out anyway but watch for any trim change in the tail when you hold the switch for auto trim. You can set it up so that the autotrim doesn't change the gyro mode by reversing the channel if necessary.
Denis

Crash 'n Lurn
10-05-2008 09:38 AM
 
 
Qinetiqemc
Heliman
Location: Somerset - UK

Thanks DenisS,
I'll bear that in mind, it doesn't change to rate on the diagnose tab so hopefully it is OK.

Ian
10-06-2008 08:31 PM
 
 
butters149
Senior Heliman
Location: monterey park, ca

im sorry wahts the difference between gyro gain and gyro mode then?
11-07-2008 04:47 PM
 
 
DenisS
Key Veteran
Location: Essex, UK

Gyro "rate" is the ammount of stability that the gyro gives to the tail, with 0% being minimum (basically no gyro) and 100% being maximum (gyro is working hard). The gyro "mode" refers to the way the gyro reacts to unwanted tail movement. In 'rate' mode the gyro will dampen tail swings up to a degree. In heading hold mode the electronics inside the gyro 'read' how many degrees the heli has turned and drives the tail back to it's original 'heading'. It is easier to fly backwards and do most of the 3D stuff in heading hold mode. Rate mode will still allow the heli to 'weather vane' into wind. Both 'rate' mode and 'heading hold' mode can have the gain adjusted to give more control to the gyro. It's isn't as simple as that but those are the basics.
Denis

Crash 'n Lurn
11-07-2008 05:56 PM
 
 
butters149
Senior Heliman
Location: monterey park, ca

so the aux2 part in the diagnose screen refers to the gyro mode? if its in HH or rate? but the tab in tail + gyro refers to gyro gain? i just want to setup auto trim. its reallllly confusing. any help?
11-07-2008 06:05 PM
 
 
DenisS
Key Veteran
Location: Essex, UK

Sorry to Ian, we seemed to have hijacked your thread over the next few replies, but hopefully it will help with your set up too. Denis





First, what TX are you using, what gyro and which channel and switch are you using for gyro gain and auto trim? Basically if you are using a JR Tx then the auto trim is activated when a 100% (or greater than 60% endpoint) signal is sent from the transmitter. The gyro gain value is fixed in the PC software at, say, 70%. If you always fly in HH then make sure your auto trim switch travel adjustment (endpoint) only works from 0 to +100%. IF it goes to a negative figure then the gyro switches OUT of HH mode to 'rate' mode, and to the same value (70%) as set in the software. In effect the auto trim switch, when set to travel from -100% endpoint to + 100% endpoint will do two things, first it will put the gyro into non HH mode when in negative figures, secondly it will put the gyro into HH mode AND trigger the auto trim when moved to the +100% endpoint position.
I have four different transmitters here ( I am in the process of doing a video to explain all these things but BOY does it take time!!) so I could set mine up and let you know what to do.
Denis

Crash 'n Lurn
11-07-2008 06:29 PM
 
 
butters149
Senior Heliman
Location: monterey park, ca

I am using a dx7 with ar7000,
AUX ->> GEAR on ar7000
Pilot ---> AUx2
Gyro ---> rudder on ar7000

I have GEAR to GEAR set in radio, or mayb it hsould be gyro sensitivity. I have endpoints +100 and 0 for up and down. When I switch up the autotrim activates and the bar in AUx in diagnose goes right, when switch down the bar moves down to middle in diagnos screen. I put HH sensitivty in HC software to middle.
11-07-2008 06:34 PM
 
 
butters149
Senior Heliman
Location: monterey park, ca

I am using built in gyro from HC
11-07-2008 06:34 PM
 
 
butters149
Senior Heliman
Location: monterey park, ca

I cannot add -100% for endpoints on Dx7
11-07-2008 06:35 PM
 
 
butters149
Senior Heliman
Location: monterey park, ca

So if the bar on the diagnos screen is to the right of the middle (HH mode) the gyro gain will always be at the preset level in the tail + gyro tab? I have it at 0 right now, maybe i should move it to 65% into HH mode.
11-07-2008 06:36 PM
 
 
butters149
Senior Heliman
Location: monterey park, ca

Why would the autotrim be in HH mode? I thought it would autotrim in non HH mode? But this doenst seem to be the case when I use the switch.

UP = Autotrim and HH mode, although i dont see the servo drifting, which indicates its still in Rate mode, mayeb ih ave to adjust in the sensitivty in the HC softwre?

down = Autotrim Off, and the diagnose screen shows that the bar is in the middle based on my end points of 100%(up) and 0% (down).
11-07-2008 06:41 PM
 
 
DenisS
Key Veteran
Location: Essex, UK

Ha ha, the DX7 is NOT one that I have here, although the JR 9303 (9XII in the UK) is very similar, and I have one of those with me.
OK, lets go through it one by one
First, If you have the AUX into GEAR then that is fine. You have 0 and +100 on the GEAR channel, which, again, is as it should be. Don't change the GEAR to GYRO in the TX as it makes things even more complicated. The way you have it is good.
Second, your last post confirms that things are working correctly , DOWN = Auto trim OFF
UP = Auto trim ON and HH ON. Everything is correct

NOW, you seem to have set the HH GAIN to 0 in the software, you are correct when you say you must move it back to 65% on the HH side.

I think you can confirm HH by holding the rudder stick SLIGHTLY to one side, the servo should drift all the way to its end position (in 'RATE' mode the servo will only move as far as you move the stick, i.e. NOT all the way to the end).
Re-check this when you have the auto trim switch in the UP position. The servo should drift all the way to the end still, and not necessarily centre when you release the rudder stick.
All in all you seem to have it set up correctly
Denis

Crash 'n Lurn
11-07-2008 07:23 PM
 
 
DenisS
Key Veteran
Location: Essex, UK

Oh, forgot to say, the auto trim makes sense to be in HH mode as the tail should be straight at that point. If it was non HH then you may be holding some left or right rudder to keep it straight which would then tell the HC that this is where neutral is. I hope that is clear
Denis

Crash 'n Lurn
11-07-2008 07:26 PM
 
 
butters149
Senior Heliman
Location: monterey park, ca

o ok, its getting clearer.

So in the diagnose menu, when gear switch is up, the bar moves right to about 80%, when gear switch is DOWN, the bar moves to middle.

Where is a good percentage I should leave the HH gain at in the software?

If the bar in the diagnose screen goes 80% with switch up and 60% with switch DOWN, this is still in HH mode right? more importatnly its still at 65% gain right?

I just need to clear those up.
11-07-2008 07:30 PM
 
 
butters149
Senior Heliman
Location: monterey park, ca

Looks like Ill have something to look forward to when comming home from work today =) Hey DenisS are you using the internal gyro?
11-07-2008 07:33 PM
 
 
DenisS
Key Veteran
Location: Essex, UK

Hi again
Yes, I'm using the internal gyro, and it works fine.
I don't understand how you get the 80% and 60% in the UP and DOWN position (unless the 60% is actually -60%). Is this what you are getting in the diag screen n the Aux channel? If it remains above 60% then the autotrim is permanently on. It has to go to 0% or below 60%.Again, if it is actually negative 60% then your gyro will go to 65% RATE mode. The gyro gain will remain at 65% as you say, as the gyro gain is no longer controlled by the TX, only the MODE is controlled ( HH or RATE mode, the GAIN [65%] stays constant)

Don't worry, it makes things clearer in MY head when I run through it like this with somebody.
I was hoping to do some video tonight but after having to reload Windows twice in two weeks I'm only just getting it back to how I want it, all because NERO (in my humble opinion pos) cocked up my DVD drives).
Denis

Crash 'n Lurn
11-07-2008 08:00 PM
 
 
butters149
Senior Heliman
Location: monterey park, ca

Oh ok,

Well I had it at 65% in aux bar because I was messing around with the mixing, but now when I have it with the switch DOWN, the bar is right in the middle, when I have it up the Bar is about 80%.

Also I heard that Autotrim is activiated when the collective bar is above 50% or somthing?

Once I hit autotrim, Do I have to press the set button? Do i Have to set autotrim for all modes? Nor, Pos and Hor?
11-07-2008 08:11 PM
 
 
butters149
Senior Heliman
Location: monterey park, ca

Hey Denis,

How are you setting up your servos to 90 degrees initially to setup the head with HC? I am used to using subtrims to center the servos, but now that HC is doing all the mixing I am not sure how to do it.
11-07-2008 08:24 PM
 
 
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