RunRyder - My T-Rex 500 Config

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Flybarless Rotor Head Systems > My T-Rex 500 Config

puma1824
Senior Heliman
Location: Maryland, USA, MHA Member

Here's my configuration for my T-Rex 500 with VBar: (Download location for config files below after notes)

T-Rex 500 Vbar notes as of 9/21/2008

Cyclic Servos: JR z3650 (same specs as 3400G but w/Metal gears)
Tail Servo: JR 3400G plastic gear
Motor: Scorpion 1600 w/13T
ESC: Stock w/Hercules BEC
Modded Head Parts: Mikado T-Rex 500 conversion kit
Head Dampeners: K&B Head Dampeners *much harder than stock
100% Flat Throttle Curve
*REMEMBER to check your CG! Make sure it's perfect.

=====================================
VBar Banks:
Bank 0: NORMAL using Classic Mode
Bank 1: IDLE1 using Ultra Mode - Mild
Bank 2: IDLE2 using Ultra Mode - Wild

======================================
Head setup / links:
Ball Links on servo horns are the stock 16-16.5mm from center location/setting.

With the collective set at mid-stick / 0 degrees, I have exactly 16mm between the top of the frames and the bottom of the swash. Set your link mechanically to that then you can set the two links from the swash to the blade grips to 0 pitch.

Tail servo is exactly in line with the tail ie the rod goes directly across. This should not matter, you'll have to adjust the center and travel on both sides to match your model. Unfortunately EVERY model is varies slightly and you'll have to fine tune/trim from my settings. Trim is the easiest to setup in the Vbar software. It's all the other settings which make it difficult, which hopefully we (myself, Chuckie & Inkspot) had already worked out.

=======================================
TX Settings:
I run the following Expo which is tied into my IDLE UP switch. Vbar modes are also tied to the same switch.

Normal (Classic)
- Aileron: 25%
- Elevator: 25%
- Rudder: 15%

IDLE1 (Ultra)
- Aileron: 30%
- Elevator: 30%
- Rudder: 20%

IDLE2 (Ultra)
- Aileron: 40%
- Elevator: 40%
- Rudder: 25%

==========================
Misc Notes
I used the transmitter to limit the amount of + full collective pitch in order to get +/- 12 degrees collective. No pitch control (in one direction only) in Vbar software. The "Collective Common" effects both +/- pitch not one or the other. So changes to this means equal changes on both ends. Without changing the TX, I always had a few degrees more + than -

Yes I flipped the grips. I use leading edge control. Why? I figured since the Logos are flipped and everyone else running flybarless is flipped I figure why not...I haven't tried trailing edge control.

===========================

NOTICE:
These are my personal notes. Please use at your own risk. I assume no responsibility if your model reacts in a manner not intended. These settings and notes are for reference. You will need to verify everything is trimmed out for your model.

Config Files: LINK to Config Files

Please let me know how it works out for you. If you have any suggestions please provide feedback.

-puma1824

09-22-2008 02:40 PM

BrainDrain_dx
Senior Heliman
Location: Wichita KS

I have the same head setup with 9650's all the way around, I didn't try Ultra mode but I ran your fastest file in Extended with expo it was slow around center so I took the expo out. Controls are a little slower than what Im used to and the tail jumps around too much from pitch imputs. Im going to hybrid this file with some of my favorite logo 600 parameters and see if I can get it to work a little better for me. Thanks for a good start

dx4life

09-23-2008 03:19 PM

HOMEPAGE

Chuckie
Key Veteran
Location: Crofton Maryland, MHA member

We didn't tweak Extended mode but ran two Ultra Modes. The extended is probably the default trex 500 from Mikado. We'll have to give the extended mode a try as others are reporting it flys better than ultra, but I don't know what setting people are using when they make this clame.

puma, wheo someone selects extended from the file you sent what configuration is it using? Also when someone selects Ultra but doesn't use the Aux switch what configuration loaded?

Charles

Please stand by for faster service!

09-23-2008 05:18 PM

auto illusions
Heliman
Location: Moon twp. PA USA

Puma, thank you for all the help and the initial setup file.

I only had to packs through it last night but at least it was flyable.

I was getting a little head wobble on the first flight and after i turned down the gyro sensitivity 5% on each airleron and elevator, the second pack seemed to develop a wicked tail problem. Im not sure what the heck i did but somehow when making the changes i changed the majority of the settings to the default basic settings from Mikado which flew like crapola!

I got everything restored and im going to try to play with it a little today.

With your setting, it is definately easy to fly as the controls are not too fast at all.

09-23-2008 06:41 PM

heli-hurley
Senior Heliman
Location: st.neots

How did you get the bank to change with the aux channel i can see the switch working in the live menu but cant get it to do anything with the different banks.

Cheers

Rob

My heli works as an ornament.......at least it stays in one piece!!!

09-23-2008 07:23 PM

heli-hurley
Senior Heliman
Location: st.neots

I figured it out now

My heli works as an ornament.......at least it stays in one piece!!!

09-23-2008 08:08 PM

Chuckie
Key Veteran
Location: Crofton Maryland, MHA member

auto illusions,

Lower the Rotor Gain (or Proportional values) a little if the heli oscillates at high speed. If the heli shakes what is your headspeed? Stiff dampening with low head speed will cause slow shaking in the head/heli.

Changing the tail gain is ok. Different servos and length the ball is on the servo arm will require fine tuning of the tail gyro gain.

Charles

Please stand by for faster service!

09-23-2008 10:26 PM

puma1824
Senior Heliman
Location: Maryland, USA, MHA Member

Quote

I never saved the file in Extended mode. I'm not sure what settings would be in place if they were to select Extended. Maybe the values would be changed based off of the currently loaded bank?

As for which config loaded, I actually provided separate files for NORMAL (Classic), IDLE1 (Ultra), IDLE2 (Ultra).

I probably can't make it out to the field this weekend so, let me know how the Extended mode test goes in your 600N and/or we can try Extended when I get to field next.

09-24-2008 02:53 AM

jbdww
Senior Heliman
Location: Round Rock, Texas

Puma,
Thank you for the file the other day. I have tried it out and works well for my liking. I am not running any expo, but I never do run expo on any of my setups.

Everyone else,
I do have an issue that is strange and I have had this since I started working with the VBar on my 500. When I do rolls, somehow elevator input gets put in causing my roll to come out where my nose is almost pointing straight up.

Thanks
Joe

Skids Up

09-24-2008 04:33 AM

tony_tuong
Senior Heliman
Location: northridge ca,91324

Chuckie, Puma1824
I have Z15 1620kv with 13T pinion and stock head dampener

It is ok at TC = 80% straight but as soon as I increase to 90%, the head is shaked. should I change a stiffer head dampener or lower proportional gain?

Thanks

09-25-2008 02:49 AM

puma1824
Senior Heliman
Location: Maryland, USA, MHA Member

Quote
Chuckie, Puma1824 I have Z15 1620kv with 13T pinion and stock head dampener It is ok at TC = 80% straight but as soon as I increase to 90%, the head is shaked. should I change a stiffer head dampener or lower proportional gain? Thanks

Oh yeah I run K&B Head Dampeners, which happen to be very stiff compared to stock. Probably accounts for the difference in results.

09-25-2008 03:05 AM

tony_tuong
Senior Heliman
Location: northridge ca,91324

puma1824
thanks.

I ll buy K&B to see if it stops shaking.

09-25-2008 03:23 AM

jbdww
Senior Heliman
Location: Round Rock, Texas

OK I have figured out my wired rolls. I remounted the gyro on the heli. I must have had it angled just enough to affect elevator during a roll.
The only thing I have different from the file is my gain on my tail. I am very happy with how my heli flies with this file.
Thanks
Joe

Skids Up

09-25-2008 05:42 PM

tony_tuong
Senior Heliman
Location: northridge ca,91324

Chuckie, Puma1824
Why do you use EXP? Can I use RC deadband instead? Which one is better.

To slowdown Aileron,I can reduce ATV or increase Padle Streering Intensity. But I dont know which one is better to use.

Thanks

09-25-2008 06:30 PM

Chuckie
Key Veteran
Location: Crofton Maryland, MHA member

I don't think the RC deadband has the same feel as expo but to be honest I haven't tried to run 40% deadband. I don't know what would happen when the stick reached 41%. Give it a try and let us know.

What do you mean by slowing down Aileron? Expo slows it down in the center of the tx stick and reducing Cyclic Rate slows it down (reduces total throw) at full stick. Remember vbar is a "rate demand" system so you won't see the reduction in Ail throws on the bench. Just like ATV for Rudder the higher the ATV (Cyclic or Rudder Rate in vbar) the faster the tail rotates. If you don't like the feel getting to full stick use the expo to modify it, get it? Adjust total rate first the play with expo to get the feeling around center that you like. Also, I don't suggest you adjust ATVs in the tx for cyclic rate, use the vbar software.

Paddle Steering and Bell go hand in hand (PSI should be 1/2 the amount of Bell) and Bell is controlled in Flight Para menu by Cyclic Rate. Look at the Wiki site and note the same value for Cyclic Rate (86) is seen in Bell Ail and Ele in Cyclic menu (86), PSI is 43. When adjusting the Cyclic Rate both Ail and Ele parameters are adjusted. Be careful if you change values in the Cyclic Menu, they should be consistent.

Vbar uses higher Proportional to make the heavy tail flip as fast as the heli can roll. Ele is 2 twice that of Ail. Main Rotor Gain in Flight Para menu is the same as Proportional in Cyclic menu. The higher proportional the more servo power is used to keep the heli stable in the wind. AOF is activated depending on the Rotor Gain. I'm still trying to figure these out but the wiki says it reduces oscillations. If the heli oscillates reduce the Rotor Gain. For 600mm helis and larger the heli might not oscillate so don't run high values unless you know what you're doing.

I suggest you play with values in Flight Para Menu to make the heli fly like you want (using expo as you like) and only adjust values in Cyclic menu when you know what you're doing. I don't but I'm ok with taking the risk. I crashed my 600n playing with vbar parameters when I didn't know their total affect (read my old posts and you'll see what I'm talking about).

Hope this helps. I'll answer any question I can and I'm sure others with more experience can add their observations.

Charles

Please stand by for faster service!

09-25-2008 08:28 PM

tony_tuong
Senior Heliman
Location: northridge ca,91324

Thanks Chuckie.
I know what you mean and be very careful to change cyclic parameters

1)I mean to slow down cyclic at the full stick. I did go to Fight parameter to reduce cyclic rate to 65 but this will decrease both Ail and elev rate. So, I thought that if I only wanted to reduce ail but not ele then I had to go to Cyclic menu to reduce PSI for cyclic. And I agree 100% with you that if I change PSI then I have to change bell to have result of PSI = ½ Bell
I know you will think what the hell do I want to slow down ail and elev at full stick? I just wanted to mess around to understand more.

2) In wiki, it says 20% of EXP should be used to slow down at center stick. I use 20 % EX for Ail, Elev and Rud but it is still sensitive for me at the center stick so, I could not yet decide to increase RC dead band or EXP. Since you said exp should be used. I will try 30% EXP later

3) As I go to higher HS, I have alittle shaking head, I could not wait to buy stiffer Head dampener so, l went to cyclic menu and reduce proportional on both Ail and Elev by 5 from default values for T500 file, early this morning, I hovered it at 90% TC and shaking problem went away. Again, In wiki, it says if I increase proportional and lead to oscillation then I have to increase AOF. So I have option here, I can decrease proportional or increase AOF on both Ail and elev to get rid of shaking problem. As I state before I decrease Propotional and problem was gone. so shaking and oscillation can be treated the same way?

09-25-2008 09:55 PM

auto illusions
Heliman
Location: Moon twp. PA USA

Help Please

Help, i think i got the heli decent but still is nothing like my logo600 with V-bar.

On Tic Tocs, it seems to have a mind of its own, inputing airleron corrections.

Any time i move the collective fast and agressive, it seems to be making hard adjustments on its own.

On a roll, it pitches up hard on the exit.

What settings should i move around. Im thinking that the gain on the swashplate functions should be raised or lowered, not sure which direction. I go from 30 to 35 and can't tell much difference.

Tommorrow i will give it a couple more packs and try some things.

09-25-2008 11:17 PM

tony_tuong
Senior Heliman
Location: northridge ca,91324

Did you use and modify T500 file comes with software or use puma's files?

09-25-2008 11:27 PM

Chuckie
Key Veteran
Location: Crofton Maryland, MHA member

tony_tuong

Quote
So, I thought that if I only wanted to reduce ail but not ele then I had to go to Cyclic menu to reduce PSI for cyclic.

Reduce PSI and Bell will slow the rate down as you say. I'd set the values so the heli rolls as fast as it flips. If you get into piro flips you want an even amount of control on cyclic. Do you think the current 2 to 1 ratio from ele to ail is not balanced?

Quote
Since you said exp should be used. I will try 30% EXP later

On pumas 500 in idle 2 we have 40%. With high rates you need more expo but again its a pilot preference. On my 600N I have 40% on rudder to reduce the sensitivity.

Quote
As I state before I decrease Propotional and problem was gone. so shaking and oscillation can be treated the same way?

Yes decrease proportional if you are using puma's setup. We left it kind of high but turn it down if it helps.

Charles

Please stand by for faster service!

09-26-2008 01:08 AM

tony_tuong
Senior Heliman
Location: northridge ca,91324

Chuckie

You are right. Piro flip will be needed equal rate of roll and flip but I cannot do piro flip yet. Again, I just messed around with puma's setup

.

I am using puma's untra IDE1 with 20% of Ail, Elv, and rud(because wiki says 20% Exp can be used so, I thought I could not increase exceed 20%). I just increase Ail and Elv EXP to 35% and I like it.

thanks alot.
Tony

09-26-2008 03:43 AM

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