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Beginners Corner > Heli Fuel - Regular fuel?
 
 
H. Wayne S
Heliman
Location: Gray, Ga. USA

OK Two fold question here and showing my ignorance.
What is the difference in heli fuel and regular glow fuel other than more Nitro?

I had a new OS-50 Hyper, ran nothing but 20% Heli fuel in it and burned a hole the size of my little finger in the piston after 12 flights. AND no it was not running lean. Now you know who wants $135.00 to fix it.

If I'm going to pay $10.00 a gallon more for heli fuel over regular fuel what am I suppose to be getting.

I have a lot (over 3 cases) of regular 15% Glow fuel, can I use it in my heli?.



Or could it be the engine itself? This is the second engine that has locked up at our field in a week.
09-18-2008 11:55 AM
 
 
Bob Wales
Senior Heliman
Location: Lebanon CT

Burning a hole in the top of your piston is due to it running lean.
Ask me how I know?
As far as the fuel goes your paying more for the oil content in the heli fuel. Overall better for your engine.

Remember the 5 sec. rule, if you can't put your finger on the backplate of your engine for more than 5 sec. your running to lean.
09-18-2008 12:58 PM
 
 
H. Wayne S
Heliman
Location: Gray, Ga. USA

OK Bob, I'll ask: " How do you know ?"
As stated, this is not my first time out of the house.

I have been in this hobby a long time. I cannot see how the engine was running lean when as you say, I could put my hand on the back plate.

I have, and use, an inferred temp guage and the case temp has never been over 120 degrees. This heli is my only glow engine, I have gassers 150cc & up, therefore I am very temp chonscious.
09-18-2008 02:14 PM
 
 
Bob Wales
Senior Heliman
Location: Lebanon CT

I just did the same thing to my ys91sr and it was running to lean.
Not gonna say it wasn't running good but it was to hot for the motor and it exploded mid air.
Unless there was something else tha got into your engine to have caused this I would say that it got hot.

How else do you explain a hole in the piston?

Lesson learned on my part it will be running on the fat side now, lots of smoke.
09-18-2008 02:28 PM
 
 
H. Wayne S
Heliman
Location: Gray, Ga. USA

Funny thing, My heli mentor had the same thing happen to him a week earlier. Same size hole, same placement, Same fuel. My bird smoked a heck of a lot more than his and it was running so rich it would bog on spool-up. Not looking for performance right now, just learning. It was a new engine and I "THOUGHT" it was real rich.

Also- his engine was returned no charge, piston failure.
They want $135.00 to fix mine.

Oh well as they say, "get over it." Not going to dwell on the past.

OK, can I add caster oil to my 15% and run it in my heli ?
09-18-2008 02:42 PM
 
 
Bob Wales
Senior Heliman
Location: Lebanon CT

Yes you can add oil to it that would help with the lubrication and keep your engine cooler.

I know how you feel man, I just bought this engine as well this year and it's disheartening to see it explode and then pay more money to fix it.
I have only put 2 gallons of fuel through my engine before it died.

It can also hurt your motor to run it in to rich as it wont heat up and bring your engine to operating temp and allow your ring to set.
09-18-2008 02:53 PM
 
 
helimatt
Elite Veteran
Location: Lafayette, IN

As to using regular non-heli fuel: OS recommends at least 18% oil, and most heli fuel has more, and we run pure synthetic. I would hesitate adding castor oil to regular fuel to use in the heli, because you'll see a lot more varnishing. You could experiment I suppose...

I and others in my club have run 20-20 4-cycle fuel with synthetic oil and its fine on the Hyper, only a bit less power than the 30% heli fuel.

Hole it the piston: Did you by any chance use a piston-lock tool through the glowplug while torquing the fan/nut onto the crankshaft?
If not, and you are ABSOLUTELY sure you didn't run lean, perhaps it was a defective piston, and you should press for warranty repair.

I blew a hole in my piston (muffler broke in half in flight, caused a lean run...

The liner was not in bad shape so I re-used it and the rebuild was fairly cheap- new bearings, piston, ring. Took one short evening.

Never, ever, ever, ever give up.
09-18-2008 02:55 PM
 
 
Bob Wales
Senior Heliman
Location: Lebanon CT

My liner looks to be in good shape as well but since the piston and sleeve came together from my LHS I replaced them both.

As for the main bearing it felt iffy to me so I pulled it and it feels smooth as glass now.

I'm running 30% as well.

All part of learning this hobby.
09-18-2008 03:04 PM
 
 
H. Wayne S
Heliman
Location: Gray, Ga. USA

Piston stop NO! That is a bad word.
I used a wood Crank/Rod stop I made in the shop long time ago.

The fuel I have is:
15% Nitrol
18% Total Oil,
80% Synthetic
20% Degummed Racing Castor.

My problem is I do not want to go through this again.
09-18-2008 03:31 PM
 
 
TRACERBOB
Senior Heliman
Location: Panama City, FL USA

Quick question, what glow plug are you running? I was thinking....maybe the heat range is wrong and causing the comustion chamber to overheat through detonation. Just a thought.

Try not. Do or do not. There is no try
09-18-2008 06:11 PM
 
 
H. Wayne S
Heliman
Location: Gray, Ga. USA

Was running #8, purchased 4 when I got the kit.
09-18-2008 07:30 PM
 
 
Papa Sal
Senior Heliman
Location: Reno, Nevada- USA

My two cents, I think nitro's are like gasser's....more nitro content the cooler the burn. The same as octane in gasoline, that's why regular gas "pings" and "knocks".

Ahhhhh Master Card...."priceless"!
09-18-2008 08:42 PM
 
 
Mutt
Key Veteran
Location: t ca usa

I have been running 15% powermaster airplane fuel for years in my heli with no adverse effects. Yes you can add castor to your fuel to increas the oil. But lets look at a couple of things ok cool power 15% heli fuel 15% nitro 17% synth oil ok cool power 15% airplane fuel 15% nitro 2% caster and 15% synth. I have ran with a os8 plug on the 15%powermaster plane fuel and I have used a os a3 both work fine. I will stay with the powermaster 15% plane fuel for my self as it works fine for my needs

"ANNOY A LIBERAL".... "QUIT YOUR JOB SO YOU DONT PAY TAXES"
09-18-2008 10:21 PM
 
 
H. Wayne S
Heliman
Location: Gray, Ga. USA

Thanks Mutt, the fuel manufacturer, agrees. Can you believe they answered an e-mail. Made a believer out of me.
I'm not adding any off the shelf caster. running what I got.
Wayne
09-19-2008 12:48 AM
 
 
Mutt
Key Veteran
Location: t ca usa

Your welcome. I been running the same fuel for both the planes and the helis I myself cant see for my needs to buy 30% fuel or specialized fuel for a heli. I feel if I need more power I can always go to the powermaster ys/saito 20/20 but I dont see a need for that even for my needs. Good luck have fun.

"ANNOY A LIBERAL".... "QUIT YOUR JOB SO YOU DONT PAY TAXES"
09-19-2008 01:08 AM
 
 
H. Wayne S
Heliman
Location: Gray, Ga. USA

I know this is WAY off the sublect but:Just a note Papa Sal, The higher the octain, the higher the flash point of the fuel, therefore more heat is needed to burn it.
The reason cars ping with lower octain fuel is the fuel is pre- detionating,(burning) before the piston reaches TDC due to the low flash point of lower octain fuels.

Most modern engines have a higher compression raito, than older ones to produce more power.

The low octain fuel also causes a high compression gasoline engine to deisel because the compression is high enough to generate sufficent heat in the already hot combustian chamber to flash the fuel.

As a general rule an engine that requires a high octain fuel will run hotter.

Heat=power.

Wayne
09-20-2008 04:06 PM
 
 
Papa Sal
Senior Heliman
Location: Reno, Nevada- USA

Thanks Brother Wayne

Ahhhhh Master Card...."priceless"!
09-20-2008 06:59 PM
 
 
biglarry
Heliman
Location: ME

have you ever considered that the hole in the piston could have been caused by a manufactures defect and not the fuel or the mixture, i remember my first nitro heli a raptor 30 with a TT 39 engine, i could not get the engine to run right, after sending it back to the factory thay determined that the there was a defect in the way the piston was machined and sent me a new engine.
10-02-2008 02:14 PM
 
 
airdodger
Elite Veteran
Location: Johnston USA

If you melted the piston you were too hot period. The reasons it was too hot can vary, such as too much load vs the rpm.

Chris
10-02-2008 10:11 PM
 
 
mirmanchuck
Senior Heliman
Location: Venice Fl.

Heli fuel has a higher oil content than airplane fuel. Helis don't get as much air flow over the motor as airplanes.

Vibe 90
Caliber 5
Trex 450 SE
10-05-2008 12:01 AM
 
 
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Beginners Corner > Heli Fuel - Regular fuel?
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