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CarbonXtreme . Midland Helicopters . HeliProz

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Main Discussion > WildCat Heli fuel
 
 
Dragon2115
Key Veteran
Location: New England

"Point being, pro's flying your product sell your product!"

That reminds me of something said in another topic here on Runryder that I'd like to paraphrase. If Curtis showed up at the Nats flying a Rubbermaid trash can with a rotor and a tailboom mounted to it, half the people out there would run out and buy one. They would then spend the next 6 months on forums like this trying to convince everyone else how it was the greatest thing ever invented.

The point being, Curtis probably could fly a trash can and make it look good. It wouldn't be a good product, but because Curtis made it look good tons of people would line up to buy it anyway just because that's what Curtis flew. So, if you want to sell product, whether it's any good or not, get some big name to use it and a certain number of people will not only buy it but will stick with it just because that big name uses it. Doesn't say much for independent thinking does it?

As for the WC vs. CP debate, they're both good fuels. Each has its' merits. One poster complained that WC didn't work for him in the winter. He then claimed something had to be wrong with the fuel. Ok, he's from a very cold climate and where WC uses a thicker oil I can see that maybe it wouldn't flow as easily as CP with its' thinner oil at those temperatures. Does that mean there's anything wrong with the fuel?

The things I see being missed here is that there are so many variables as to how any combination of glow plug, fuel, engine, and exhaust is going to run depending on temp, altitude, and humidity at the current time. When you start to take these things into account it's easy to see how one fuel might work better for one person but not for another given different combinations and conditions. But the real shame here is how some of us are so quick to condemn any one component as being crap because it didn't work in their particular combination in their particular climate and altitude even though plenty of others are using it without any trouble.
03-21-2002 04:54 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
nutswinger
Senior Heliman
Location: TX

so, GM:

i supose, that, if our sponsors were so inclined, they could 1099 us for the value of discounts received and items given free.
sure do hope none of em are that hard up for deductions on their taxes
03-21-2002 05:18 AM
 
 
spincycl
Veteran
Location: Marietta, GA

Fuel opinion

I advocate using ONE fuel and that fuel should be what you can get the easiest. Mail ordering fuel has obvious problems, so I rely on local shops.

Well, my shops don't carry Wildcat at all, they only carry morgan, so I use that.

I see guys running powermaster, wildcat, and morgan, but I have NEVER heard of an engine dieing because of the fuel.

This reminds me of the gaurentee for Amoco Ultimate gasoline. They GUARENTEE that the fuel will not cause fuel-related damage to your car. Yeah, just try to PROVE that their gas caused your engine to wear out.....

No matter which fuel you use, a lean run or two will kill any engine.
03-21-2002 05:27 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Dave H.
Senior Heliman
Location: Tulsa, Oklahoma

WOW

Now that was some of the funniest reading Keep up the good work everyone.

Dave
03-21-2002 06:14 AM
 
 
MitchD
Senior Heliman
Location: Antioch TN USA

Round 3

Hi Mr Conley!,
gee where shall I start?
I never called John Steele a liar,you stated that .What's really false is the idea that you try to give to everyone on here, that John can run 140 gals of fuel thru an engine w no wear.In my book, anyone who can burn 140 gals thru a heli engine flawlessly and have no wear like you say gets all my respect
I dont know John personally,but maybe he is a good pilot,and he may know his stuff,but,140 gals thru an engine is a lot,you say theres no wear in it.Tell us more about this "Immaculate conception" ,was it in a test stand?heli?running continuous?in a heli being sport flown?scale ship?Ok maybe he got 140 gals thru it,but what kind of shape is it in?I think I have an idea of what Don Chapman would have said.If youre saying that by running WC fuel in a 16000 rpm engine theres no wear,why are you selling it to rc'ers for?NASA and NASCAR Teams will buy all you have.
Point: Dont snowball us on here by saying the engine" has no wear".If you said "It lasted for over 140 gals and was still running I could accept that,along w everybody else thats been laughing at this claim. BY THE WAY YOU STATE IT.
Telling us CY wont fly your fuel because you wont"give it to him"or "I dont sponsor pilots" is horse puckey.
Someone presented realistic numbers on what it may cost in fuel to keep CY in the air for a normal year.You quickly multiplied that by 24 times plus.For someone who doesnt care about money,and only cares about quality those numbers popped up out of thin air real quick.If WC is the super hi quality fuel you say it is,then the volume of sales should support 25 guys representing your fuel,or at least CY for example,in the least.

As far as "hiding on the computer"goes, I dont. I make events just like you do.
I dont go on here telling everyone that if they ie buy or use my "Basura"91XXL that it will never need maintenance,and lt'll out fly all the top heli pilots in 3 easy sessions on low monthly payments.
seems thats how WC always gets pushed.
Another question,If you dont give anything away period,how do you contribute to the r/c helicopter hobby besides taking money?I'm asking w out trying to be "smart."

Some guys like WC,more like CoolPower.We had polls on here before where Cool power won by individual voting that couldnt be rigged or scammed and was open to registered users of this forum only.Sorry, the numbers dont lie.If a pilot likes WC well thats fine,to each his own.
And I do say this w all respect to the guys who use WC, and like it.
If a guy had his mind set on it I wouldnt try to change it,cause its what he likes.Most guys that use CP usually never go to a different brand unless a dollar or two is the contributing factor to the change.This isnt speculation,This is something I've seen over and over again.
If you could tell the guys about your fuel without "slamming" Morgan Fuels ,and coming up with "As seen on TV" claims, without any proof,I'd would think thats great,and I'd shut up.Usually I stay out of old debates,but "the emperors clothes type fable" just lured me right in.
Looking forward to your favorable reply!
03-21-2002 08:11 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Marcus
Heliman
Location: Washington

Cool power all the way

I have been to Todd Bennett's school 3 times and I know he swears by Cool Power.He has told me before when I asked him about fuel "I would never run anything but Morgan Fuels" He said his school helicopters get 150 + gallons through them without out a problem. Everytime I have been to the school the helicopters have excellent power and always run flawless.
Todd is a super nice honest guy, I trust what he says so its cool power for me .
The fact that Curtis and Todd use this fuel says to me its the best. If they could run fuel that would make their helicopters run better you could bet they would use it.
Maybe the reason you do not see the people from Morgan fuels on this fourm is because they are busy making sure their fuel stays #1.

2 Years ago at the jamboree there were close to 300 pilots and all I saw was cool power fuel all over the place ...there must be a reason for it. For that matter every fun fly I have been too all I see is cool power.

As for me the fuel has always worked great in my helicopters I have been flying for a long time now and have never had a problem with their fuel.
I know some of the guys at my field have tried power master, red max and wild cat, they all went back to cool power.

Just my 2cents
03-21-2002 08:20 AM
 
 
MitchD
Senior Heliman
Location: Antioch TN USA

12 coming up

right on marcus!
03-21-2002 08:37 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
christianzx
Heliman
Location: Boston

If you refuse to use CP because the big guys are using it, explain your choice of helicopters?`
03-21-2002 11:42 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
GM1
Elite Veteran
Location: Tallahassee, Florida US

IRS

NS,
I know the manufacturers that give product away or sell at reduced prices do indeed report that to the IRS but I don't think it is itemized by name on the report though I'm also equally sure the IRS would ask for that list in an audit.
This truly has been the funniest thread in the history of the list. To paraphrase Churchill:
"Never have so many been bored so much by so few."


On a dog sled team, if you're not the lead dog, the view never changes.
03-21-2002 11:59 AM
 
 
SemiArticulate
Veteran
Location: On Location

Ok, I stayed up all night, purchased fuel from every vendor and tested all of it. I looked at the cost per gallon, the reps, the fuel, the smell. The best fuel to a 100% certainty is Jet-A Kerosine. It has the lowest cost per gallon, the best smell, the best performance. You want reps? How about MD Helicopters, Eurocopter, Bell, Vario, and Graupner? You all feel silly now don't you?

No I am not a rep for Jet-A.
03-21-2002 12:27 PM
 
 
EChapkis
Veteran
Location: Tampa, FL

Marketing

Companies market their products different ways. Jerry Conley from Wildcat is marketing his fuel by saying that he won't give any fuel to anyone. People, THIS IS MARKETING. Cool Power chooses to give free fuel to the big names, THIS IS MARKETING. Don't think Wildcat or any other company, fuel or not doesn't have a plan to market their products. Morgan Fuels is the #1 selling fuel in the world. Whatever they are doing, it is working. Jerry is marketing his fuel HIS way. There is no right way or wrong way. For example, some fuel companies won't tell you the oil content or brand of oil. Wildcat does. THIS IS MARKETING. Some companies use reps to promote their products, other companies do it other ways.

I really don't care what CY or Chip Hyde uses, that really doesn't sway my purchases. What does sway my purchases is going to the field weekend after weekend and seieng the same products being used with consistant reliability.

The bottom line is buy and use what you want. I myself like to use what is known to work and I do not want to spend the time or money to experiment. For example,

I use OS/YS engines, OS plugs, PowerMaster fuel, and Futaba radio equipment. They all work well for me. I am not going to try a Thunder Tiger engine, Wild Cat Fuel, Telebee gyro or an Enya 3 plug. No reason for me to. Many times the cost savings of buying a lesser known or less expensive product only cost you more money in the long run.

Use what you know works.

Evan Chapkis Tampa, Florida
03-21-2002 01:37 PM
 
 
gwright
Senior Heliman
Location: Melbourne, Fl

I told myself I wouldn't chime in here,..but I'm finally doing it I run morgan fuel, have since '89 and don't plan on changing. I have tried other stuff over the years and still stick with CP 30. I'm happy with it,.. and I paid for it for many years before any sponsorship, and the times I run out of fuel and can't wait a few days to get it, I buy morgan at the hobby shop at retail pricing. I've tried wildcat, byron, sig, powermaster, and just about everything else available. I like morgan, it runs consistently, and delivers good power. I know many people have success with wildcat. I know John Steele personally and he does burn more fuel than anyone I know. He flies extremely well, hard 3D, and his integrity is beyond question. Wildcat works well for him. Morgan works well for me. To each his own. I continue to use coolpower because it has served me very well over the years. I haven't seen any benefit from other fuels I've tried, and i've solved more engine problems than I can count when helping people by simply pumping in a tank from my jug. If vanilla was the only flavor in life it would be a very boring world. We have choices, and I choose to use a proven product that I know and trust. others choose to use another product. As to the claims of temperatures,.. are we really sure that lower temps are better?,.. there is a range where every engine is happy. I know that CP works well, bearings last, and the temp is not out of the range it should be or I would have problems, expecially considering I'm in a rather hot climate (central florida). I don't know for myself if WC runs cooler or hotter. Unless I saw empirical data stating something else is better, or experienced it for myself,.. I wouldn't change. This is a hobby, not a career, and I'd gladly pay more for fuel if I saw a positive difference, which I haven't with anything i've tried. I've seen some negative's, but never any positives, and CP has always been the most consistent running fuel FOR ME so I'll continue to use it.
03-21-2002 01:51 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
heliman41
Key Veteran
Location: Valparaiso IN. USA

By golly, it IS winter outside afterall isnt it? Lets all take a deep breath and then go sniff our favorite glo till we see pink elephants.
03-21-2002 03:05 PM
 
 
J Kramer
Heliman
Location: Brownsburg Indiana

After reading all this about fuels makes me feel even better that I mix my own. BTW at less than $10.00 a gallon.
03-21-2002 03:18 PM
 
 
Rchover
Key Veteran
Location: Helping Customers!

J Kramer,
how do you get nitro?
and what oils do you use?

McKoi
03-21-2002 03:37 PM
 
 
MitchD
Senior Heliman
Location: Antioch TN USA

yes I am os max,Just like gw,I paid for my fuel at LHS's long before I ever got on with Morgan.I think GW explained it the best.he speaks for probably over a "gazillion" gallons burned.over 10 plus years.I've tried the other fuels too,and always went back to Cool Power.
03-21-2002 03:54 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Jeff H
Key Veteran
Location: Cincinnati, OH

Boy, did I get a headache reading this thread.

I fly Wildcat. I like it alot, and it has never given me problems. Over the last 6-7 years I have used 10%-30% in both full syn and castor syn blends in all my planes and helis. It works great.

I would use morgan but I do not like to be smoked out. Wildcat smokes alot less.

I would use Sig but they can't get it through their thick skulls that castor is not the be-all-end-all of lubrication. I need to bring a putty knife with me to scrape the castor off my planes. I'll never use it in helis.
03-21-2002 05:31 PM
 
 
SemiArticulate
Veteran
Location: On Location

I didn't get any such email. Maybe you can love a product too much?
03-22-2002 01:01 AM
 
 
nutswinger
Senior Heliman
Location: TX

hey dude,
post a copy of the offensive email, just so the rest of us will know whom to ostrasize and hate.
03-22-2002 02:15 AM
 
 
Mark Ryder
Elite Veteran
Location: Encino, CA

Time to move on. Thanks to everyone for all the input on the subject of fuel.

Mark
03-22-2002 04:26 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
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Main Discussion > WildCat Heli fuel
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