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JR-Spektrum . Gyro Hobbies . E-flite

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Main Discussion > WildCat Heli fuel
 
 
SemiArticulate
Veteran
Location: On Location

http://www.rockdriver.net
"I'm a product rep for HIROBO,VBlades,and Morgan Fuels"

Oh I am talking to a rep for Morgan Fuels. Another paid man. How many box tops do I need to send in to rep for them?

added
(I might do that, I will be at Muncie)
03-19-2002 07:28 AM
 
 
maybeim
Senior Heliman
Location: Stockton, California

Well, I must admit that this has got to be the best r/c heli site of the digital age, a big THANKS to Mark.

Here is Mr. Conley, in person, replying to a discussion about his product and stating the truth about his business ethics, which I commend.

I use wildcat fuel not because some hot shot pilot gets it for free and spouts off about it's quality, but because I believe it's a good product and I just like it, period and I like hot shot pilots because they fly like there is no tommorrow, it's beautiful to behold.

Now the wind could blow in another direction and I might think some other fuel is better someday, but life is full of choices and what fuel I use is a pretty simple one to make, not to be confused with marriage or career choice.

I have noticed alot of the big name pilots, dealers, and some manufacturers use this forum for discussion and that is one of the beautiful and wonderful things about RunRyder, it just flat works well for me , just like Wildcat fuel works well for me.

So I'll keep reading and posting and learning and discussing and then I'll go flying because that, ladies and gentleman is what it really comes down to, flying, just flat out flying, which is the most fun I have had with my clothes on, period.

Paul A.
03-19-2002 03:54 PM
 
 
Steve Campbell
Elite Veteran
Location: Baton Rouge, LA

A question for Mr. Conley...

You stated that "Wildcat tends to run 20 degrees cooler than other fuels."

I'd be interested in hearing how you collected that data, and the reason WHY it runs cooler. Thanks.

Steve
03-19-2002 07:32 PM
 
 
Ricardo Forte
Heliman
Location: Brasil

Me too !!!!!!!!

"""""A question for Mr. Conley...
You stated that "Wildcat tends to run 20 degrees cooler than other fuels."

I'd be interested in hearing how you collected that data, and the reason WHY it runs cooler. Thanks.

Steve"""""""""""



Ricardo
03-19-2002 08:34 PM
 
 
Darkstar
Senior Heliman
Location: USA

Coolpower

Coolpower works great for me, I like the green residue, the smoke (kills 'skeeters), it's made in Alabama (read: Alabama fan not Kentucky).

I've never had any problems with it whatsoever, so if it's offered to me for free, it's a no brainer. I spend more time flying than worrying about my fuel since Morgan fuel is so consistent that It's one more thing that I do not have to worry about.

If there was a big enough difference between Wildcat and Coolpower then I'm sure sponsered pilots would switch. There is not, so they use what is given to them. Common sense.

Tim.
03-19-2002 08:43 PM
 
 
nutswinger
Senior Heliman
Location: TX

"MMMMM well if Hirobo was such a great heli and robbe why did Gray Wright, Todd Bennett switch (just to name a few)????? "

i thought this particular pissing contest was about fuels?

and as far as what is in it, who cares , as long as it works.
03-19-2002 09:08 PM
 
 
nutswinger
Senior Heliman
Location: TX

ya know, a lotta folks were using morgan fuel, before morgan offered em sponsorships. as in on their own dime.
now one thing i have learned in 40 years of r/c flying, is never trust anything a mfgr tells ya any further than ya can throw the SOB. and that statement definately applies to this thread.
03-19-2002 09:45 PM
 
 
Darkstar
Senior Heliman
Location: USA

Choices, Choices, lets see how I'm diagreed with this time.

"If Jerry would say WildCat is sponsoring pilots guess what Morgan would lose there shirts"

Why? Because WC is that much better? I do not think they would switch that easily.

And, if I was Jerry, and all of the sponsored pilots would use Wildcat, I would sponsor them. Forget the self-righteous attitude. Bottom line, it's a business to make money. If I had a choice between making a modest profit without sponsors, and a much bigger profit with sponsers, I'd have sponsors.

You like Wildcat, I like Coolpower, sponsored pilots use Coolpower because it's good and free, Wildcat does not sponsor pilots, so they'll continue to use Coolpower, since any benefits to using Wildcat (if any) are outweighed by the fact that Coolpower works great, and is free to them.

Let's see:

Sponsored pilots --
Wildcat: Good
Coolpower{/B]: Good + free
No brainer decision.

[B]Sport Pilot--

Wildcat: Good, less smoke, maybe more power, cooler, less expensive
Coolpower: World recognized leader, great track record, more smoke, green residue, no problems
You decide for yourself.

TIm.
03-19-2002 09:56 PM
 
 
Phil
Senior Heliman
Location: Indiana

Wildcat fuel ?

Everyone has their opinion about heli fuel just as they do about Shell gas or Amoco or BP or any other.What it boils down to is the fact that all are good and it is difficult to say otherwise without some hard facts that will vary from consumer to consumer.I think that if you are satisfied with what you use then more power to you.
03-19-2002 10:15 PM
 
 
Darkstar
Senior Heliman
Location: USA

Choices

Amen.
03-19-2002 10:17 PM
 
 
Steve Campbell
Elite Veteran
Location: Baton Rouge, LA

Ya know, this has been discussed ad nauseum before. The one thing I fail to understand is why all the outrage over Morgan not putting the specific ingredients on the jug. So what?

Morgan fuel has an excellent track record. There's no denying that, regardless of who uses it and whether or not they pay for it. As has been stated a couple of times, the stuff is CONSISTENTLY good. So what if they don't use 100% pure ingredients, or whatever? It is obviously not hurting the engines.

And I'm paying for sponsored pilots' fuel? How so? Is WildCat markedly less expensive than CoolPower? Fuel prices vary wildly from region to region. Some places it is quite reasonably priced, and others demand your first-born for a gallon. Gordie Meade said the price was basically the same. He has no axe to grind with anyone, so his word is good enough for me.

I'm certainly not wedded to CoolPower. I use it because it has been good to me, and it is available here. If WildCat was available here, at competitive prices, I'd try it. If it worked as well (or better) as CoolPower has in my ships, and was cheaper, I'd switch in a heartbeat. But I'd be willing to wager that I wouldn't notice much, if any, difference. I don't demand the maximum from my gear. These are toys, not a religion. The lower temp thing is intriguing, but show me how and why.

Personally, I think much of this discussion is moot. But then, I've been accused of being a "cranky old fart".

Guilty...

Steve
03-19-2002 10:22 PM
 
 
BladeRunner
Elite Veteran
Location: Ontario Canada. Member of "some sort" s

Wildcat?

I think this one has been looked at from every conceivable position, isn't it time to sweep it under the rug, put it to bed--GIVE IT UP already???
Lets get back to arguing about---batteries, ya--that's it.
03-19-2002 10:28 PM
 
 
Naomi
Elite Veteran
Location: Ontario, Canada

Whatever happens to Cox fuel. ? :)

when i started .. i bought like a pint of cox fuel in metal tin can.. Is Cox still around in business? not sure what content of their nitro was.. but works great.

Naomi
03-19-2002 10:56 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Dragon2115
Key Veteran
Location: New England

Nah BladeRunner, there's still more fun to be had with this topic.

I found that CP30 and WC30 were comparably priced in my area. I was happy with WC30 (all 3 cases of it), good power, less smoke, and pretty consistant on the needles. I switched to CP30 because I was able to get a better price on a volume buy. I wasn't disappointed by the CP30 with one exception, the smoke. I do think my engine, a YS61ST2, is a tiny bit more finicky on the needle settings with the CP30 but that's about it. I didn't see any huge power difference between the two fuels. I did like the reduced smoke so maybe I'll give WC another try. Have to check the pricing first but I'd like to try a couple of gallons of the WC 20/18 before making a decision and buying fuel for the season.

Now for the fun part, throwing a fox into the hen house. I would like to see Morgan list the ingredients and content on the bottle like Wildcat does. It would make it much harder for them to pork everybody for that extra dollar for CP15 heli vs. CP15 airplane fuel. That's right, it's the exact same stuff with the exception of a "heli" sticker on the bottle and a dollar more on the price tag.

Somebody was wondering how we pay for the sponsored pilots' fuel?
03-19-2002 11:11 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
christianzx
Heliman
Location: Boston

"So keep buying Morgan and help pay for the Sponsored guys to get free fuel please do the need to eat and fly all over the world on >>>your hard earned money. "

(I can only make a bit of this out, it's obvious English isn't your first language, so I apologize)

Just like you buying your Fury to help pay for the sponsored pilots who fly them?
03-19-2002 11:12 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
SemiArticulate
Veteran
Location: On Location

No dude, this must go to ten pages. That is what a good pissing contest it all about.

"why all the outrage over Morgan not putting the specific ingredients on the jug. So what?"

I don't know if it is outrage, but that is why I picked up the WC jug over the CP jug when I bought my first gallon of RC fuel. If its on the bottle then there is some expectation that you will find exactly that inside. There is some accountability. If its not on the bottle and you find out what you believe is in the fuel is actually wrong, what are you left with? Plus if you know exactly what is in the fuel then you have a specific reference point.

The only reason I got into the pissing contest is because of this notion that if the 'reps do it than I should do it'. If you are not being paid to use it then you are free to decide. You can look at the merits of the different fuels, batteries, helis, etc. across the board. The only thing being a salesman or rep should guarantee is that you can kick that person in the crotch when the product doesn't perform like they told you. If they claim they are there for any other reason than I don't listen to them. And if you go to them with a problem with their product and they say "thats the first time I heard that" then they should get kicked in the crotch twice. So for me WC works out well because I live 45 minutes from the company. So if I ever have a problem with it then I can kick the top guy in the crotch. I don't have time to drive to Alabama just to kick a guy in the crotch. I have not had to do this yet with any product but the TT rep came close. This method may seem low or pansy but I don't have time to get into a full blown scuffle. Kick to the crotch and go, thats my philosophy on reps.

"These are toys, not a religion"
I'll pretend I didn't hear that!
03-19-2002 11:25 PM
 
 
Dragon2115
Key Veteran
Location: New England

Wow dude, I'd hate to run into you at the field on a day when you haven't had your coffee yet.
03-19-2002 11:31 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Wildcat Fuels
Senior Heliman
Location: Lexington, Ky

Responses

Here are the answers to the posted questions:

I will, as I said before, answer only question in regard to Wildcat products. I am not here to bash anyones elses products simply to answer direct questions about Wildcat Heli-mix. Steve you asked a very straight forward question and here is your answer: (from our web site) I will add a few comments at the end....

Less Smoke/More Power/Superior Mid-Range - For years heli pilots associated good lubrication with large amounts of smoke, this is simply not correct. Oils used in R/C fuels can be of different viscosities (different thicknesses or weights) some fuels use large volumes of less viscous (thinner) oil with the idea that since the oil is thinner the engine will be able to accelerate quicker and the greater volume will make up for the reduced protection that the less viscous oil provides. In a few respects this is true, but the penalties outweigh the benefits. By using the less viscous oil a much greater volume is required for lubrication, this in turn reduces the amount of burnable fuel available (the oil does not burn) and thereby reduces power. Usually the result is the pilot over leaning the engine trying to extract the power. The larger volume of oil also produces excessive smoke (carbon) during combustion. WILDCAT uses a more viscous oil at 18% volume. This oil better protects the piston with a stronger shear strength and load carrying capacity lubricant. It also provides for a better seal between the piston and the sleeve, this in turn allows for higher compression due to the reduced blow-by ie.. more power. Because we use a more viscous grade of oil we can use the 18% volume, this allows more methanol and nitromethane (fuel) for the combustion process ie... more power. By using a higher viscosity oil we can use the recommended amount that meets and exceeds most warranty requirements including the popular OS heli engines. Using a more viscous grade of oil also provides for our next benefit, better heat removal. In straight forward engineering terms the greater the viscosity the higher the heat capacitance. In english, the thicker the substance the more heat it will absorb in a given amount of time. The higher viscosity oil can simply carry away more heat from the engine. Once again, this provides for a cooler running engine that will make more power and transition better.

Additional comments: Steve/Ricardo we research our fuels very carefully and use test equipment to monitor engine performane, this can be done in a variety of way which include infrared heat detectors or imbeded thermalcouples. We also take data from a number of pilots that fly our fuels, such as Gordie Meade, which has been very helpful with his extensive knowledge of engines. As for his results they are on this thread, and yes, he did see lower temps and more power.

MitchD - You might want to get a hold of John Steele the last report I had from him was that he had over 146 Gallons thru his YS 61 with no appreciable wear and no bearing changes. He lives in Louisville, Ky. and if you contact me off the forum I will see if I can get you his number.

Darkstar - Our attitude is not self righteous, simply consistant. We have always maintained that sponsorships drive up fuel prices, they do, that fact goes without saying. Now, if Wildcat changes our position, just to get market share..which we are getting anyway..., then that would be wrong. I know in todays society the idea of integrity seems odd and so you call me self righteous, I call it honesty and some people still have some. A company that will do anything or say anything to get your buisness is typical today, so if you think us odd or out of place than I take that as a great compliment, it is what I am striving for in the first place. By the way, our buisness is more than about making money it is about quality and service. If all I cared about was money then, first, I sure wouldn't be in the R/C fuel buisness, and second, I would have kept my position as a fuel expert designing systems for Toyota, Nissan, DOD, and the USAF. I could have retired by now.

Heli-Gal - Wildcat makes Cox fuel and it is still out there in the local hobby shops.

Steve/Dragon2115 - Wildcat fuel prices from the distributors are MUCH lower than our competitors prices, some hobby shops mark our fuels up to get the bigger bucks and I can't stop that, but what the dealers pay for our fuels is significantly less.

SoCalDoug - That's really funny, can I borrow that one?

General - Since when is a serious discussion about products a peeing contest. You are asking valid questions about products you spend your money on, you deserve simple straight to the point answers, I hope I am providing them for our products.
03-20-2002 12:03 AM
 
 
maybeim
Senior Heliman
Location: Stockton, California

I think this thread is becoming a new type of martial art.

Quote 
The only thing being a salesman or rep should guarantee is that you can kick that person in the crotch when the product doesn't perform like they told you.


Quote 
And if you go to them with a problem with their product and they say "thats the first time I heard that" then they should get kicked in the crotch twice.


Nothing like getting hit in the head with a full gallon bottle of fuel.

Now would you use WC or CP?, guess it depends on which is heavier, making a better weapon. And since CP does not say we'll just have to start knocking people out and find out which fuel hits harder.

Oh! Man! I am a bad person (meniacal laughter included here)

Paul A.
03-20-2002 12:05 AM
 
 
SemiArticulate
Veteran
Location: On Location

You need to give them a little warning to be fair. If a rep comes up and says "Man you got to use this product because it is the best thing ever in the history of man". Then you say "Ok, but if you are wrong can I kick you in the crotch?" If they hesitate then don't use that product just from what they told you. They don't really believe in it. However, if they say "sure man, in fact you can use a rubber mallet if you want". You know that guy believes in his product. He ain't just whistling dixie. In fact, if you try it and it still doesn't perform like he said you should at least give him a break for his enthusiasm. Use a light whiffle ball bat instead. This is why it is fun to be just average Joe consumer. You can really screw with everybody and not worry about ticking off some company you rep for. You can put these guys on a pedestal or you can make them earn their money. Now of course I use the whole "crotch" thing figuratively. The pocket book is just as good if not better. And you don't have those pesky assult charges to deal with. But I'm just saying that as a consumer, there is not much to gain by blindly buying whatever someone tells you to and certainly not if they are paid to tell you that. You don't save money by not asking questions.
03-20-2002 12:45 AM
 
 
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