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PowerHelis . JR-Spektrum . Gyro Hobbies

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Bergen R/C Helicopters > CF frames for the Bergen Line
 
 
Brian Bennett
Key Veteran
Location: Dugway/Tooele UT, USA

Hey Malorie,

Has Larry or Chris ever considered/talked of doing CF frames for their kits? Has anyone made their own out here in cyberland? The only thing I wish was different on my Intrepid is the weight (and the price so I could get another). Of course, by going CF I would probably be giving up one of the most robust framesets in the process.


--(Gi) Brian

Team MRC-Hirobo and Model Avionics Rep
04-29-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Malorie
Elite Veteran
Location: Paw squared, MI

CF is not a whole bunch lighter. It is stiffer but on the same note is more brittle and is a conductor of electricity. One of the Bergen policies is not to sacrafice the durability of the machine. That way you get low maintenance and lots of trouble free stick time.

I would imagine that someone out there has made a set before.

Life's a journey, NOT a destination.
05-01-2003 Over year old.
 
 
spincycl
Veteran
Location: Marietta, GA

I have to agree with Mal., Chris, and Larry on this as well. COMPOSITES are great stuff, and the G-10 fiberglass is still a good one.

1. It will flex, but not break. Although Heli frames should not flex, they do (especially in a crash), so it's nice that you can use the G-10 frames several times over while a CF frame would possibly break after just one mishap.

2. Although I have never had it, I have heard of the RF problems generated by all CF frames, and I hear its a real bear to get rid of.

3. The cost of a CF frame would be a LOT more.... a LOT more!

I had a discussion with a engineer friend of mine who has worked at McDonnel-Douglas air for a long while in the advanced composites lab. Basically, fabricating CF in large sheets is 2-4 X more expensive than G-10, and depending on the lay-up it could be much more expensive than that. So, what does that mean? Well, the bergen frames have large pieces, and that means you have to cut them from large sheet$. It would be better if they could cut two frames from a single CF sheet, but it's unlikely.

So, on this note, I went on a pilgrimage to Minuature Aircraft in Florida. I talked to one of their engineers and talked about this very subject. So, why does the older X-cell CF frames cost about $125 total, and the new fury CF frames cost about DOUBLE that... The reason is that with the CF sheet sizes they can get, they could get a complete older style xcell frame out, but with the Fury, they get HALF of a frame per sheet. All of the CF material in the center is WASTED. So, THATS why most of the Fury's have G-10 frames as well. They are just as good IMHO.

4. I have 2 Bergen Industrial Twins, and they are 100% G-10, and they are STRONG. They pull 15-20 lbs of weigh no problem. That's good enough for me.
05-01-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Brian Bennett
Key Veteran
Location: Dugway/Tooele UT, USA

Thanks for the insight,
Out of curiousity, what is the weight ratio between CF and G10?
Those who have felt the weight of my Intrepid usually comment how much heavier it is to the Sceadu or Raptor (of course)-still, not even in the same ball park as the Intrepid.
I guess I will just have to do the 3d conversion on my 50 to get the power/weight down.

--Gi

Team MRC-Hirobo and Model Avionics Rep
05-01-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
spincycl
Veteran
Location: Marietta, GA

Good question, but a difficult one. Let's say you want a weight ratio for EQUIVALENT parts. Well for a given CF plate, a 0.062" thickness will work, but in some cases, a thicker G-10 part will be nessesary (perhaps 0.096").

I can do this, though. I have a Bergen upper frame plate for an Xcell, and a CF one. I do admit that the Bergen one is STRONGER, but let's try and do apples and apples. I will weigh them ASAP.

Stay tuned.
05-01-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Malorie
Elite Veteran
Location: Paw squared, MI

giheli,
I aggree that the Intrepid 46 weighs considerably more than a Raptor or a Sceadu. Those two machines were designed as a 30 sized machine and scaled up. The Intrepid 46 is a 60 sized machine scaled down. Definately an apples to oranges comparison. The 46 was designed when there were very few intermediate sized economical helis on the market.

Life's a journey, NOT a destination.
05-01-2003 Over year old.
 
 
Brian Bennett
Key Veteran
Location: Dugway/Tooele UT, USA

And the extra weight doesnt bother me as I know what I am getting in return. Yes, its a bird designed as a 50 not as 30 afterthought. That strength has paid big dividends in the last 4 weeks.

Brian (Gi)

Team MRC-Hirobo and Model Avionics Rep
05-01-2003 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
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Bergen R/C Helicopters > CF frames for the Bergen Line
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