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Revolution Models . CarbonXtreme . Midland Helicopters

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Audacity Models Pantera 50 - Tiger 50 > .50 vs .70 better for stick time?
 
 
MaxAdventure
Senior Heliman
Location: Boulder, Colorado

I'd love some input/opinions/suggestions;

I've had most of my heli's down on the bench for various reasons for 2-3 weeks (seems like 3-4 months), not managed to get much flying in. I'd really like to make the most of what time I can get in and I have the following situation:

I finally have all the parts to put my .50 Pantera back together (no thanks to the LHS - thats what I get for trying to support my local HT), as well as finish the .70 BBC Pantera build and try to maiden it this weekend. However, I only have one gyro between the two of them right now due to splurging on some 8717s for the BBC. I'm way over budget and it's cool to leave one on the bench for a while, but which one? I really just want to get a lot of stick time because I'm right on the cusp of a learning plateau, I can feel it. Need to get some confidence building.

The .50 I feel pretty comfortable with, the .70 is going to really sting if something happens to it. Then there's the thrill of the maiden and the power of the .70 beckoning.

thoughts?

-da (Max)
AMA 198798
issues? I have subscriptions...
08-21-2008 07:23 PM
 
 
MartyH
Key Veteran
Location: Lawrenceburg, Indiana

You answered your own question. You say you are on a budget and also that if something happens to the 70 it would sting. Additionally you mention you are looking for sticktime. Fly the 50.

Marty,
Raptors,Evos, Panteras and more
08-21-2008 07:46 PM
 
 
MaxAdventure
Senior Heliman
Location: Boulder, Colorado

not sure I was clear on the question I'm struggling with.
the only cost issue is that I want to hold off on the gyro purchase, they're both Pantera, so I expect any damage incurred will be similar, regardless.

.70 pro - new heli coolness
.70 con - this was the machine I had originally wanted to build in Jan, so I already have more sentimental attachment vs the 50

.50 pro - less emotional investment
.50 con - less performance, less 'cool, get to maiden the new heli'

wondering if I'm missing a pro/con. wondering if the added HP is a pro or a con for just burning fuel for stick time. As in, will I be too busy screwing around with the wow factor to work skills. Wondering if I should get over my sentiment over a machine and grow a pair... LOL

-da (Max)
AMA 198798
issues? I have subscriptions...
08-21-2008 10:47 PM
 
 
MartyH
Key Veteran
Location: Lawrenceburg, Indiana

There is no way you will use a fraction of the power available in a 50 for hovering and just general forward flight. I again say that given that you even ask the question suggests to me you will be more comfortable flying the 50 for now. There is no performance deficiency with a 50 powered Pantera and it's more than a 1/2 pound lighter than a BBC Pantera with the OS70. Yes the BBC has more overall power but given your current uses, it means nothing. Close your eyes and pick one and go burn some fuel. I'd choose the 50 but thats just me. Less stress and lower fuel burn for you.

Marty,
Raptors,Evos, Panteras and more
08-21-2008 10:53 PM
 
 
jbeech
Ex rrAdvertiser
Location: Sanford, FL (Orlando area)

Not to be morbid, but what if you die in your sleep and never got to fly it? Look, you only live once, right? Meanwhile, you've done all the work of getting the BBC ready so bite the bullet and get a gyro then go have some fun because life's too short!


John Beech - GM (and janitor)
Audacity Models
08-21-2008 10:53 PM
 
 
billm
Key Veteran
Location: Liberty Lake, WA

Fly the ship that is ready to fly!
You have spent time on the bench to set "a" bird up. Regardless if it's the bbc or the 50.
Get in the air and enjoy the rush.
Then, when your having fun. get another bird and then another and another then a scale ship, and another.
The ships will not kill you, the electronics will.
Fly what you got my friend.

My name is Billm. Cough, and I'm a Heli Holic
08-22-2008 03:31 AM
 
 
MaxAdventure
Senior Heliman
Location: Boulder, Colorado

Quote 
Not to be morbid, but what if you die in your sleep and never got to fly it? Look, you only live once, right? Meanwhile, you've done all the work of getting the BBC ready so bite the bullet and get a gyro then go have some fun because life's too short!

LMAO John!!! That's what's gotten me here in the first place!

I was out flying the ePantera during the club meeting tonight and thinking about it, trying to impress these guys with park flyers. ( One guy didn't want to hear any more when he learned how much was invested in the batteries, another was drawn to the SWR carbons like a moth to the flame. My fellow heli flier/spotter was like 'gotta get that beast up, scare these guys!) keep in mind, it's an electric club and the biggest thing I've seen them fly is about a 24oz foam piper cub.

Point is, John and Bill are right. I gotta go for the gusto.

Marty, I really appreciate your conservative approach, looking for a safe/long term road. Thing is I fly my little 450 pretty hard and I just have a mental block with the big machines I have to get over.

I think even if I take the BBC out this weekend and just do some flips/loops and fly it around, the next time I take the 50 out it will seem like nothing, so I'll be able to push myself and learn some new stuff.

thanks for the input guys, it ALL helped!

-da (Max)
AMA 198798
issues? I have subscriptions...
08-22-2008 05:09 AM
 
 
MartyH
Key Veteran
Location: Lawrenceburg, Indiana

Yes you do have a mental block if you think a 70 powered Pantera is a big machine. hehe. Go do it.

Marty,
Raptors,Evos, Panteras and more
08-22-2008 12:17 PM
 
 
jbeech
Ex rrAdvertiser
Location: Sanford, FL (Orlando area)

Folks,

We don't have moderators here so when I receive two PMs not so much complaining but nevertheless taking objection with something, I am forced to take a position! To wit, I'd like to step in and make a comment, which I really don't want taken the wrong way, yet in my opinion, nonetheless needs to be said. What's got me going is an innocent remark, which can be taken out of context and interpreted as belittling another's choice in models. Frankly, this just isn't what we're about.

In particular, here we have a fellow who is happy as a pig in poop with his new 70-powered Pantera! As it turns out, Darrell's not only a good friend of mine, but I happen to know he lives at about 5000 feet altitude. Consequently, with an OS70 in a Pantera, he's finally going to experience the astonishing performance of a good 50-powered model, which anybody living below 1000' of altitude takes for granted. In case you're reading this and don't know what the fuss is about, at 5000' of altitude the reduced available oxygen means a 50-class engine puts out about the power of a decent 30-class engine. Remember, it takes fuel to make power . . . but you can only use as much fuel as there it to properly mix with available oxygen and hence, at 5000 feet because there's significantly less oxygen available you can't make as much power. Making this even worse, due to the extra size, weight, and complexity of a 50-size vs. a 30-size helicopter (few of the latter sport governors, mixture servos, expensive gyros, or pricey Li packs and regulators, much less the heavier high performance digital servos) the reduced power output resulting from high altitude leads to comparatively sluggish performance. Naturally, a 40% larger engine addresses much of this, and it is "precisely" why I developed the BBC for the Pantera!

However, a more insiduous issue is what's brought this to head, which is what in turn forces me to comment. The fact is there are many, many people who simply don't "want" the hassle and high-pucker factor associated with the pricey 90-class birds, especially with the very high attendant costs associated with everything about them. Why? Because not only are 90-clas helis more expensive to purchase, but they cost more to maintain, and can cost much more to repair (and even more important to a certain class of modeler, take more time to repair). For example, I number several doctors amongst my customer for who the rapidity with which a Pantera can be assembled and/or repaired was a deciding factor as they can easily afford any model on the market! In fact, with a 90-class model pretty much any crash can easily cost 300-400 bucks to repair, and often quite a bit more, and will in turn take a week or more to properly repair. I know this from experience, i.e. how spending $700 and a week of my life to repair a 90-class crash isn't even all that unusual. Of course if your time is worth nothing to you, this devolves to merely an issue of cost, which nevertheless isn't insignifican. Further to this, in my personal experience, I also know it doesn't take but one or two crashes of this magnitude to make me more conservative (perhaps even a lesser pilot) than before the crash!

Why? Because you there's nothing like spending a week plus seven or eight hundred bucks to fix a crash to make you very aware (and concerned) about the price you pay of making a mistake - in both time and money - when you dumb thumb your 90-class model into terra firma versus a model you don't particularly mind slam-dunking. Remember, a Pantera is not only relatively inexpensive to purchase, but it's not too bad to repair in either time or money as compared to a 90-class heli and thus, you more easily concentrate on the fun of flying it. After all, most of us have wives, plus our children/grandchildren, as well as church, and our work, i.e. activities we also partake in (to the exclusion of our aeromodeling), which quite frankly, are far more imporant than what model we chose to fly, right?

But I digress because my point in all this is how being perceived as belittling a fellow pilot who prefers a 50-class helicopter (even one powered by an OS70) is, in my opinion, much like the guy at the flying field with the giant scale gasser-powered fixed wing model who looks down his nose at folks with the 40-powered airplanes. Simply put, in this example, the 40-class model airplane in timeless because it has over the years proven itself to be pretty much the most practical size model you can own.

Nevertheless, it's also my experience there are some guys, typically those relatively new to aeromodeling, who once they get a giant-scale gasser somehow foolishly equate their spending more for their models as making them the better man, which is hogwash! In fact, quite frankly, I happen to know more than a few folks (some with more money than God) who quite simply "prefer" the more compact and convenient size 40-class model airplanes, which hold true with our 50-class model helicopters as well.

Ultimately, this kind of reminds me of a good friend who occasionally will unkindly snicker how her brother drives a big truck because he's got a small you know what. Maybe she's kidding, maybe she's not, but nonetheless, flying a 90-class model doesn't equate to anything at all . . . except personal preference, i.e. to each their own!

So as I climb off my soapbox, please let's all remember how a complately innocent remark may be interpreted when it's written in a forum vs. when chatting face-to-face (where people can easily discern that you're kidding) and hence, let's be a little more careful about what we write.

My 2¢


John Beech - GM (and janitor)
Audacity Models
08-22-2008 02:56 PM
 
 
jbiter
Veteran
Location: Orlando, FL

I'm with John on this one.

I have 7 helis which range from a trex 450 to a 90 sized Avant but I enjoy flying my 50 size helis the most due to the low cost of operation and repairs.

Jeff
08-22-2008 03:21 PM
 
 
MartyH
Key Veteran
Location: Lawrenceburg, Indiana

John if this is aimed at me you wasted a whole bunch of time. I wasn't belittling anyone. I was actually making the point that about one flight into the Pantera 70 he will realize there is nothing to be intimidated about and I suggested he "go do it".

He mentioned the word "big" and suggested he might be a bit "intimidated". I was inferring that after the first flight there is nothing to be "intimidated" by and therefore he will not see the OS70 powered Pantera as such a "big" (intimidating) machine. I apologize to the original poster if my post was taken the wrong way. I dont belittle anyone. I fly Raptor 90's mostly now but love my 30s and 50s too. The other night I was helping a guy with a 30 powered Hawk Pro and in fact I'm off work today puting together my own Hawk Pro so I am certainly not one hung up on the size of one's helicopter.

Marty,
Raptors,Evos, Panteras and more
08-22-2008 03:35 PM
 
 
jbeech
Ex rrAdvertiser
Location: Sanford, FL (Orlando area)

This is exactly what I mean, i.e. it's just as easy to be misinterpreted online as on the telephone (as opposed to face-to-face) because all the facial and body cues we've learned to interpret through evolution are absent during these conversations. Hence, while I knew your comment was quite innocent, I nevertheless wanted to head off a potential issue. Enough said.


John Beech - GM (and janitor)
Audacity Models
08-22-2008 03:43 PM
 
 
MaxAdventure
Senior Heliman
Location: Boulder, Colorado

Quote 
here we have a fellow who is happy as a pig in poop with his new 70-powered Pantera!

LMAO! makes my work calls go better when I read this stuff!

and YES! I am extremely pleased (even though I haven't flown the BBC yet) with my choices at this point. the .50, the electric conversion, and the BBC.

John PRECISELY illustrated exactly how I ended up at these choices.

I'm not a doctor, lawyer or other profession that orients toward 'mo money', and as much as I drool on some of these FAI-F3C $1500 kits and pumped .91's. Initial outlay, fuel and repair would just be unbearable pucker. At least until maybe I'm better than Kyle, Jason, Wayne or any other world class pilot and only crash on request.

My choices give me killer value, I have three very affordable machines that I can swap parts between if required, yet have three very different personalities. AND I can fit them in the trunk of my A4 or back of my Corrado!

-Darrell

ps. we can turn this into a .50 vs .90 conversation, right? I think of the BBC as a 'mini 90', regardless of engine .60, .70, or .90

-da (Max)
AMA 198798
issues? I have subscriptions...
08-22-2008 04:32 PM
 
 
billm
Key Veteran
Location: Liberty Lake, WA

John,
Well said my friend.

My name is Billm. Cough, and I'm a Heli Holic
08-22-2008 05:35 PM
 
 
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Audacity Models Pantera 50 - Tiger 50 > .50 vs .70 better for stick time?
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