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Century Helicopter . MTA Hobbies . Model Rectifier Corp

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HIROBO Freya - Sceadu - Shuttle > Another broken clutch
 
 
JeepCJ
Key Veteran
Location: Pennellville NY (Syracuse Heli Group)

You should have said you were going to be looking for a 600N. I am going to be selling mine!


Bob

Helicopters....it's all in your head
08-18-2008 09:27 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Turkana
Senior Heliman
Location: Montreal,Quebec , Canada

Well said Dr Ben Lol!!!
08-19-2008 12:40 AM
 
 
Eagle2bravo
Veteran
Location: Working or flying helis

Yeah....YEAH How come there are more 600's out there than any other machine? I rest my case. It's my money....my choice

T-rex 600n, Trex 450 se, Gaui 200, Trex 500, Blade cx, . "If ya plant corn, ya get corn."
08-19-2008 01:18 AM
 
 
tadawson
Elite Veteran
Location: Lewisville, TX

Quote 
Yeah....YEAH How come there are more 600's out there than any other machine?

Stupidity loves company? I dunno . . . I suspect it's because Joe Blow consumer values cost over quality . . .

- Tim

The more I touch electrics, the more I grow to hate them . . . .
08-19-2008 01:19 AM
 
 
Eagle2bravo
Veteran
Location: Working or flying helis

hey now thats not nice

T-rex 600n, Trex 450 se, Gaui 200, Trex 500, Blade cx, . "If ya plant corn, ya get corn."
08-19-2008 01:27 AM
 
 
tadawson
Elite Veteran
Location: Lewisville, TX

My point is simply that there are a *LOT* of things in this world that are popular that are not even close to being of decent, or even marginal quality. Popularity by itself, at least as I see it, is no metric whatsoever of product quality . . . merely how successfully marketing is, and, potentially, how gullible Joe Blow is . . .

- Tim

The more I touch electrics, the more I grow to hate them . . . .
08-19-2008 01:35 AM
 
 
Eagle2bravo
Veteran
Location: Working or flying helis

I don't care what your point is or what you think.

T-rex 600n, Trex 450 se, Gaui 200, Trex 500, Blade cx, . "If ya plant corn, ya get corn."
08-19-2008 01:37 AM
 
 
Davids29
New Heliman
Location: Wylie, TX

Quote 
Yeah....YEAH How come there are more 600's out there than any other machine? I rest my case. It's my money....my choice

There are a lot of Kia's on the road too....
08-19-2008 01:45 AM
 
 
Eagle2bravo
Veteran
Location: Working or flying helis

Oh no not another one I don't have anyone knocking my door down to buy this thing. I'm just about giving it away...LOL

T-rex 600n, Trex 450 se, Gaui 200, Trex 500, Blade cx, . "If ya plant corn, ya get corn."
08-19-2008 01:49 AM
 
 
Henrik Engert
Key Veteran
Location: Cedar Park, TX

Give it to me. I'll take it...

Hirobo XSpec EVO
Futaba 12Z FASST
08-19-2008 03:46 AM
 
 
tadawson
Elite Veteran
Location: Lewisville, TX

Quote 
I don't care what your point is or what you think.

Nice . . . my apologies for actually trying to answer your question . . . apparently your ego is too big to let you consider alternate points of view . . . . sad . . . . really really sad . . . .

- Tim

The more I touch electrics, the more I grow to hate them . . . .
08-19-2008 05:03 AM
 
 
dangtsi
Senior Heliman
Location: Hockley, Texas, Waller

This has been an interesting thread. I saw where Eagle2bravo had problems with his EVO clutches. I also stated that recently I too had experienced clutch problems. Please note that I have had excellent success previously with my EVO clutches. I did mention that doing autos was harder on the clutches and it seems some folks think it is harder on a clutch to bail out of an auto and a simple auto is not a problem. Every auto flexes the clutch weights and decreases the life of the metal. Those of us who like to compete in auto contests may do 4 tanks of fuel with about 75 autos per tank of fuel. I can assure you this will decrease the life of the clutch. However even doing this many autos time after time I have gotten as much as 200 tanks of fuel on a clutch. By the way I also replaced the engine bearings several times and the clutch at the end of 200 tanks and I don't know how many autos. The clutch either starts to drag at idle or a weight breaks.

Since February I have replaced at least five clutches. These clutches were replaced in two different helicopters. I had been flying about four times a week. Which brings up another point how many tanks of fuel do you guys fly using the same clutch? I know a guy who built an EVO about five years ago and has never had a clutch problem or an engine bearing problem. He has never run the engine.

I was averaging over 200 tanks on a clutch before I started autos. They started going out at about 150 to 175 doing a lot of autos. All of a sudden I was getting 20 to 30 tanks of fuel on a clutch. Now these clutches were all installed properly by dial indicator, new liners if dial calipers showed any liner wear. The same procedures were used that have been used for the last three years and no clutch problems.

Obviously I took a lot of interest in this thread. I saw a guy having similar problems that I have had recently. Being retired and on a fixed income $38 for a new clutch in two or three weeks was beginning to add up.

I think it is interesting how loyal some of you guys are to your particular model helicopter. I also think it is interesting that some people can fly for five years and never replace a clutch. Like I said I only get a little over 200 tanks on mine and a little less doing a lot of autos. Twenty to thirty tanks on a clutch is not acceptable.

Tim used the word "gullible". After having a lot of $38 clutch problems recently I would have to question could loyality be the same as gullible? I think we should all try to work this possible problem that Eagle2bravo and myself have experienced. Leif brought up engine bearings as a possible problem. Terry suggested slow not fast spoolups. Ben mentioned clutch to liner gap. I listed doing a lot of autos as another problem. What could the other problems be? Why would some clutches not last long? How many tanks do you usually get on a clutch?

Duane
08-19-2008 06:26 AM
 
 
SalsettiA
Heliman
Location: Develier - Switzerland

Despite that this fact is annoying, I'm happy to notice, that I'm not the only one that needs to change the clutch shoe every year (around 150-200 flights per year).
I also noticed something strange. Each time that a weight of my clutch shoe is broken, the rear bearing of my engine is worn. Which one is responsible for the second one, I can't tell. Are the vibrations of a bad bearing destroying the clutch?
Are the current clutch shoes weaker than the old one? A friend has a older Sceadu 50 (not EVO) than me but he flies as much as me, but never had an issue with his clutch.



Alex S.
08-19-2008 10:20 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Leif
Elite Veteran
Location: Oxford, PA - USA

Quote 
Are the vibrations of a bad bearing destroying the clutch?

Absolutely.

Metal generally weakens after a given number of flex movements. Eventually, a flex point will fail. A quality clutch will last a very long time if treated properly. Things that usually accelerate clutch failure are:

1. Flexing the shoes too far (too much gap between clutch and liner)
2. Hot starts (Excessive heat changes metal temper)
3. Failure to shut down in a crash (Excessive heat, too much flexing)
4. Vibration or shock

Autorotations themselves should not weaken a clutch, but the act of performing many autorotations may if you experience a number of hard landings or if the clutch lining begins to wear and you don't replace it soon enough.

Of course, there is always the possibility that a number of bad clutches have made it into the parts supply. Any manufactured part can have a bad batch, and quality problems can crop up with changes in supplier or process. This is where having good customer support helps.

I strongly suggest that those who are seeing this problem contact MRC. At the very least, they should be made aware of a potential part quality issue.

Leif
08-19-2008 01:18 PM
 
 
MRC-Hirobo
Key Veteran
Location: Edison, NJ

clutch issues...

Hello Everyone,

I have just read up on this post and have been on the receiving end of clutches sent in for warranty.

In particular, Hirobo R&D in Japan inspected several Sceadu clutches and they found that there was no detectable manufacturing defect and that the cause of failure must lie with the helicopter assembly or external component.

I noticed one of the individuals who has posted in this thread had submitted his clutches for warranty review. These were the clutches checked by Hirobo. After I suggested some things on the helicopter to inspect based on numerous clutch failure threads on RR showing that near 99% of the time the failure is a result of an external issue it was found that his and another individual's new motor had bad bearings. Despite the engine being the culprit MRC still replaced some of the clutches at no charge.

Since everyone builds differently, including manufacturers of other products you all install in your helicopters and all fly differently there are usually a myriad of potential causes for most problems that become terribly difficult to troubleshoot when not in person with the product.

All in all, we feel we offer the best support of any manufacturer/distributor in the USA, a high quality product that doesn't require any additional coercing by force, filing, drilling, dremeling or upgrading to make them work as intended. If in the event there is a problem, we do our best to remedy it quickly and appropriately.

It is unfortunate that some of you have experienced trouble and didn't receive a resolve soon enough to keep you loyal to a truly quality product. Those of you who have switched brands due to this issue, I wish you good luck and hope to regain your confidence at some point in the near future.

-Greg G.-
08-19-2008 06:57 PM
 
 
Eagle2bravo
Veteran
Location: Working or flying helis

It's not my ego thats too big ,it's the cost to keep this thing in the air thats too big. $38.00 PLUS $55.00 X 3 = TOO MUCH. And I hardly do autos. I changed bearings that didn't need it. No more for me, thanks. MRC should do further testing...lol

T-rex 600n, Trex 450 se, Gaui 200, Trex 500, Blade cx, . "If ya plant corn, ya get corn."
08-19-2008 08:07 PM
 
 
Leif
Elite Veteran
Location: Oxford, PA - USA

Why would you replace the clutch bell? Clutch liners are less than $4.00 for a pack of two and are quite easy to replace.

I agree the US retail price of the clutches are pretty expensive, but there are less expensive sources for this part if you buy direct from overseas.

Anyway, good luck with your endeavors. Sorry the Evo didn't work out for you.

Leif
08-19-2008 08:45 PM
 
 
MRC-Hirobo
Key Veteran
Location: Edison, NJ

clutch issues....

I wanted to interject that the clutch breakage has not been a widespread problem for us, Hirobo or its other world wide distributors for their helicopters.

This clutch has been in use in the Sceadu line of helicopters since its debut nearly 7 years ago.

I'll give a quick list of reasons MRC, Hirobo and our constituents have found for clutch failure:

1. bad engine bearings
2. hot starts
3. crash where engine runs to wide open throttle
4. failure to replace parts for regular maintence, the clutch and liner do not last indefinitely. They should be inspected regularly and replaced when worn or showing signs of fatigue - just like in a real car with a manual transmission.
5. incorrect drive train alignment, engine not sitting square in motor mount, etc.
6. worn clutch material causing clutch shoes to over-extend
7. debris contamination, dirt, grass, sand
8. clutch not fully seated in clutch bell
9. multiple auto-rotations, causes the engine to suddenly decrease RPM, fatigues metal over time
10. excessive drive train vibration, poorly tuned motor

These points are the same for nearly all model helicopters and even RC car engine clutches.

Again, we're sorry you have had a bad experience and would like an opportunity to assist you in resolving this problem.

-Greg G.-
08-19-2008 09:09 PM
 
 
payne1967
Veteran
Location: warwick uk

my original sceadu was new in 2002 it has had 1 clutch due to a worn out liner that was left too long and the shoe broke but it was still flying with the clutch grabbing in 2004
up to date it has not had another clutch shoe , the liner has been replaced every year (and yes i do lots of auto's with it)

if you are going through so many clutch shoes then you have a build issue it doesn't matter what make of heli you have if you build it incorrectly then you will have problems

and if you think a t-rex 600 will cure your problems then please remember it has had clutch problems on the first batch's and the clutch bell has had a few modifications along its short life

and my 600 has only had the start adaptor come loose in 10 months of use, is it better in flight than my sceadu, only in some areas of flight in others the sceadu is better
08-19-2008 11:07 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Eagle2bravo
Veteran
Location: Working or flying helis

Clutch liners seem to always on back order. My heli was built right. I wouldn't risk that kind of money. I donno abt. you but I have to bust my $ss to afford this hobby. I took my sweet time building this machine over last winter. It's perfect. Engine sits true,runout is @ .001 (how much better can you get) Bearings are new (2 gallons), All other bearings look and feel good, Never had a hot start, clutch to bell clearance is abt. as close as you want to be. I have 3 broken clutches and no nitro to fly. Thank god for the T-rex 450 and 500.

T-rex 600n, Trex 450 se, Gaui 200, Trex 500, Blade cx, . "If ya plant corn, ya get corn."
08-20-2008 02:16 AM
 
 
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HIROBO Freya - Sceadu - Shuttle > Another broken clutch
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