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Aerial Photography and Video > Alternative AP heli stabilization systems
 
 
borneobear
Senior Heliman
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

Well, most popular stabilizer would be the Helicommand.
I already have one, but I find the price way too high for my second AP rig.

I'm looking for alternatives other than the AP2000I (works great, but I sold it).

One example is Skookum's SK360 (anyone tried this for AP?).
http://runryder.com/helicopter/t402...ight=flybarless
http://www.skookumrobotics.com/


Any input would be much appreciated.
Cheers.
08-12-2008 04:39 AM
 
 
nooobs
Key Veteran
Location: Toronto, Canada

It's a "digital flybar" for flybarless setups. I don't think it has any stabilization.
08-12-2008 04:45 AM
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borneobear
Senior Heliman
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

Quote 
The SK-360 Digital Flybar is a high performance, compact and lightweight electronic pitch and roll stabilizer for model helicopters of all sizes.

Imagine stabilizing a heli WITH flybar installed.

It is a CCPM mixer (or what ever heli configuration) with SK 360 gyros, and some smart programming.
08-12-2008 04:53 AM
 
 
nooobsKey Veteran - Location: Toronto, Canada -
Quote 
Imagine stabilizing a heli WITH flybar installed.

No need to imagine. It's already possible with HeliCommand Rigid.

08-12-2008 05:03 AM
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borneobear
Senior Heliman
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

Quote 
No need to imagine. It's already possible with HeliCommand Rigid.

Price dude. Price.

Anyway, I'm not looking for a flybarless head. I'm looking for alternative stabilization (other than the Helicommand / AP200OI).
08-12-2008 05:06 AM
 
 
nooobs
Key Veteran
Location: Toronto, Canada

Save dude. Save.

...mmm... There is Gyrobot but pricey as well.
08-12-2008 05:10 AM
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borneobear
Senior Heliman
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

Quote 
Save dude. Save.

Hah!! If only its that simple.

Gyrobot - 549,00 EUR. Way over my head. But thanks for the suggestion.
http://www.lf-technik.de/shop/index...bcfd85582c7af5c
08-12-2008 07:17 AM
 
 
ben1101
Senior Heliman
Location: Australia

The only truly stabilizing aspect of the helicommand series is the optical ground sensor, that detects ground movement and compensates. In AP you are usually flying too high to get any use from it ( from memory its useful altitude max's out at around 3m ).

Otherwise all the helicommand is is a virtual flybar. The price differences represent different functions in setup (phasing etc.) and quality of the gyros used.

I'd say go for it with a skookum, Or get an AP2000i controller and stick 401's on the roll and pitch.

Ben

Helicopters: The. Best. Ever.
08-12-2008 09:49 AM
 
 
nooobs
Key Veteran
Location: Toronto, Canada

Quote 
The only truly stabilizing aspect of the helicommand series is the optical ground sensor, that detects ground movement and compensates

Not really a stabilizer that keeps your heli in a levelled attitude. It only attempts to keep the heli in one spot.


Quote 
In AP you are usually flying too high to get any use from it ( from memory its useful altitude max's out at around 3m ).

$$$Profi.


Quote 
I'd say go for it with a skookum,

This does not stabilize. It's a digital flybar for flybarless setups.


Quote 
Or get an AP2000i controller and stick 401's on the roll and pitch.

Have you successfully managed to set this up?
08-12-2008 09:58 AM
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ben1101
Senior Heliman
Location: Australia

Hi Noobs,

You are right about none of the V bars "stabilizing" the heli- I am referring to having HH gyros on cyclic, which will keep the heli's attitude pretty close to where you last left it.

With HH gyros, they all fight any deviating force on the pitch and roll - which is what helicommand calls "Stability" and everyone else calls "virtual flybar". EXCEPT for the ability to call up a pre set attitude which helicommands unit does - I forgot this

With the Spartan, it's only really necessary if you have eCCPM on your heli, as it takes mCCPM input from the transmitter which you can then fit gyros on pitch and roll and have the spartan take care of the mixing.

Otherwise you can fit gyros to pitch and roll on a mCCPM heli.

I would say that vbars just allow ccpm to have gyros attached, with whatever system they use.

I have flown a flybarless heli with a 401 on the roll axis and was very impressed, just start with the gain low and work from there.

Helicopters: The. Best. Ever.
08-12-2008 12:51 PM
 
 
nooobs
Key Veteran
Location: Toronto, Canada

Yup we've tested 401s on AP2000i as well but not flybarless. I wasn't too impressed with the results. It does work. Probably works better on flybarless. I'll have to test.
08-12-2008 12:58 PM
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borneobear
Senior Heliman
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

Done the flybarless with the AP2000i and two 401s. Not bad. Here's the one and only vid I took of my flybarless swift. So it does work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4iEvrioTU-U

By the way Noobs, the Skookum's SK360 does have gyros for stabilization.
08-12-2008 05:06 PM
 
 
nooobs
Key Veteran
Location: Toronto, Canada

Ok. Let us know how it works out for you. Thanks.
08-12-2008 09:24 PM
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pleroyrr
New Heliman
Location: Portugal

IR Sensor x Gyros

Hi ...
I'm thinking between HC and AP2000i, but not decided yet. My intention is using it for AP, stabilizing my Vario Benzin Trainer (29cc).

You are talking about using AP2000 with 2 gyros. I thought it was used with the FMA IR sensor. Is it an alternative (2 gyros instead of IR sendor) ? Or are you talking only about flybarless machines? Please advise ... In my case, should I buy the FMA sensor or 2 gyros? Any sugestion is much apreciated. Thanks in advance.

Another thing is I'm not able to find AP2000 in stock (US/UK). Is it worldwide ? Nobody has it ? Can anybody tell me where I can get it complete with sensor please ? EU is preferred.

Thanks in advance.
Patrick
08-29-2008 06:57 PM
 
 
ben1101
Senior Heliman
Location: Australia

Hi,

In the case of the AP2000i with gyros, the unit is just used as a ccpm mixer for pitch and roll. The AP2000i will not remember which way is up and keep the heli level with the gyros. So you can use it for a flybarless conversion, but then there are smaller and lighter flybarless controllers out there.

The AP200i with the FMA IR sensor will help stabilize the heli, ( and it does a good job in flat terrain ) but it will become unreliable if you are flying near trees, builtings etc where it cant get a good view of the horizon. Also I have heard of people experiencing difficulties during sunrise/sunset when the sun is close to the horizon.

I would recommend Helicommand, which has the ability to re level the helicopter, and relies on internal accelerometers to create an "artificial horizon" so the local terrain can not interfere.

IMO the AP2000i seems to be yesterday's news - Spartan talked about bringing out inertial sensors for the unit but it just never seemed to happen. That said, it is still a useful tool.

Ben

Helicopters: The. Best. Ever.
08-30-2008 01:14 AM
 
 
Autoeject
Key Veteran
Location: Ashtabula, OH, USA

Since the original post asked about stabilization for AP, one can rule out Vbar/Skookum and the like. The are electronic flybars and only work to make the cyclic more manageable.

So far as alternatives to the Helicommand or AP2000i, you've really only got the General Laser or FMA Copilot. Anything else would fall into the more expensive catergory.

Mark Webber
wai-rc.com
Spartan RC Distributor
Outrage Helicopters
08-30-2008 02:21 AM
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borneobear
Senior Heliman
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

Granted, AP2000I uses FMA thermophile to level the heli.

But gadgets like the Helicommand uses 3 gyros to stabilize on horizontal mode. So if the 'stabilizer' is an V-flybar but used in unison with a flybarred heli, wouldn't that increase existing non-stabilized systems?

Here's a new V-bar system from Gaui, at only $199!!
Very tempting.

http://flying-hobby.com/catalog/pro...roducts_id=3882
10-05-2008 04:04 PM
 
 
eyeinsky
Senior Heliman
Location: Fall River, Nova Scotia, Canada

pleroyrr

Just set mine up with AP2000I with FMA IR sensor and two gyros (JR 500ring) for Aileron/Elevator and flybarless. It works great.

Heli Command; How does it get a horizon? Gyros do not self level?
So what internal sensor does it use to make the Horizon?

Hard job competing with gravity.
10-06-2008 03:00 AM
 
 
borneobear
Senior Heliman
Location: Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia.

From Claptron:


Stabilisation is equivalent to that provided by conventional "inertial control" technology.

This may help:

10-06-2008 03:35 AM
 
 
gjestico
Senior Heliman
Location: Vancouver, B.C.

The helicommand has no "IMU" Inertial measurement unit. an IMU combines gyros with accelerometers and some very tricky programming to resolve a reference plane (artificial horizon) that is drift proof and self-correcting. The programming is where all the money is on a "real" autopilot.
The helicommand is able to do a very good job with its gyros and programming. But it will drift, and wont resolve true level if put through some tests. One thing in its favour is the relativly short flight time of the average "model" heli. 10-15 mins ? 'real' autopilots must maintain level for hours at a time.
10-06-2008 03:41 AM
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