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Synergy R/C Synergy N9 > My N9 doesn't seem happy, a little help please.
 
 
wings19
Veteran
Location: Traverse City, MI

It seems a little slow, not what I would expect. Love the way it flies but it should be a little more responsive than it is right now. Let me start of with my specs.

-OS .91SZ-PS pumped newly rebuilt (needles: LOW- 30 degress closed; MID- 1/2 open; HIGH- 1.5 open at center w/ carbsmart) flying at about 700ft MSL, tank vented to atmosphere.
-1900RPM w/gv-1
-Radix 710SB, Radix 105mm tails, and super stubz
- +/- 12 collective pitch, don't know cyclic
- Spartan 760 gyro w/ Futaba 9256 servo
- JR 8717 servos

A few things are bugging me about it right now. First, it just doesn't seem to be making the power it should; it seems a little doggy. Not what you would expect from a 90. Wondering if I should switch to using muffler pressure?

Second, the cyclic doesn't seem very powerful I guess I would say. An example I have is when I do a tail slide with a forward or backward elevator pull at the bottom to flip the heli(depending on if the tail slide is top or bottom of the heli facing me) so the tail is now facing upward I can't get the blades to bark and stop the heli. It just sort of arcs upward when it should change direction immediately and the blades should be barking! This problem is a recent development since I rebuilt the engine I think. I don't remember having this problem before that. This may be due to lack of power issue?

Lastly, the tail seems soft. I have 39% gain, it holds great. However, when I am doing 3D maneuvers the start and stop is very soft. I hooked it up to the PC and the start and stop gain is 100%.

Need some help here, my 600N is out performing my N9! This isn't good people!!

Nick
If the wings are travelling faster than the fuselage, it's probably a helicopter
08-04-2008 07:03 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Chuckie
Key Veteran
Location: Crofton Maryland, MHA member

Quote 
don't know cyclic

Can't help with the motor but to get a better idea on your setup you need to measure the cyclic throws. +-8 is nice and above is even faster.

Charles

Please stand by for faster service!
08-04-2008 07:42 PM
 
 
wings19
Veteran
Location: Traverse City, MI

I don't think the problem is relating to cyclic throw because I have played around with that at the field and it doesn't make it better. I had a ton of cyclic dialed in and still had the problem.

Nick
If the wings are travelling faster than the fuselage, it's probably a helicopter
08-04-2008 07:51 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
pariah
Senior Heliman
Location: West Valley City, UT - United States of America

In general, engines don't produce full power until they've been broken in. Until then, power that could be used to move the helicopter is used to overcome friction between the engine's parts sliding against one another. The difference in power is fairly significant.

It's a process that takes gallons of fuel, so I'm not too surprised to hear that a new machine (presumably with a new engine) isn't performing like a well-tuned machine.

As far as cyclics go - different paddles do matter, and that's one of the reasons why hyperperformance has a 4mm flybar conversion - so you have a wider selection of paddles to choose from. The 5mm flybar has two downsides to it: 1.) Fewer paddles to choose from. 2.) More mass - which means slower cyclic response. That said, I'm still flying the stock SAB paddles and flybar.

There's a big difference between the blades biting the air and the blades barking. When blades bark, it's because the blades are wobbling in and out of track - the severe case leading to 'woof and poof'.

The less severe case (ie. normal blade barking) is because the blades flex in the air. As they flex, they go a bit out of track, and you hear them "bark" as the blades vibrate in and out of track.

Stiffer blades can go a long way towards reducing blade barking, as does increased mass .90 sized blades are both stronger, stiffer, and heavier than 600mm blades used in a .50.

I know when I went from TT to Vblade 600's the blades more or less stopped barking on that machine.

Radix blades are supposed to be high on the stiffness scale as well. Go back to a pair of flexible blades if you want them to bark.

As for the tail - the soft stopping is definitely the gyro and its settings. The N9 can stop very, very hard. Hard enough to strip gears if you have your settings wrong - which is why there is a published set of settings to use for people with the GY611 - I know you don't have that gyro, so you probably need to learn what the equivalent settings are on your gyro.


--
Helicopters & Women: The last thing I want is one whose head has a few loose screws.
08-04-2008 09:37 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
wings19
Veteran
Location: Traverse City, MI

Pariah, thanks for the reply...

The heli was newly built this winter, probably 6-7 gallons on it. The engine has about 3 gallons on it since the rebuild.

I have the super stubz paddles which are super light weight. It isn't that I want the blade bark it is that I want the performance that leads to the bark. It isn't doing what it is supposed to be doing. It's a dog up there man. I don't think the blades/paddles are the problem because it flew great before the engine rebuild. I don't want flexible blades for 3D flying.

As with the gyro, like I said, the stop and start gain is 100%(highest setting). At that setting I would expect to strip some gears but it is soft.

Nick
If the wings are travelling faster than the fuselage, it's probably a helicopter
08-05-2008 02:46 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
pariah
Senior Heliman
Location: West Valley City, UT - United States of America

With pretty much any gyro, high gain is not necessarily what you want - you want the right gain for what you're trying to do. I know of gyros that give much highest piro rates when the gain is zero. Maybe the high gain on the stops is what's causing it to be soft - I don't have the gyro, so I've no clue.

As far as the paddles go - the stubz may be light, but that doesn't change the mass of the flybar itself. I assume you have removed flybar weights that come with the stubz.

Putting muffler pressure on the tank probably won't do much more than force you to change the needle settings. The whole point of the pump is to pressurize fuel to the carb, and it does such a good job that there's a regulator to drop the pressure back down before it goes into the carb.

High temperature lowers air density, which will lower performance, as does high humidity. So that may be playing a role.

And of course, there's another fact: The big disk area of a .90 sized machine has its advantages - they are much smoother, float better and auto better, among other things. But they've also got more mass to haul around.

I've met many a heli pilot who prefers a .50 sized machine because that pilot finds them more nimble. I'm not one of 'em, but to each their own.


--
Helicopters & Women: The last thing I want is one whose head has a few loose screws.
08-05-2008 06:11 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
wings19
Veteran
Location: Traverse City, MI

I see what you are saying Pariah. However, earlier this summer it was flying better.

Trust me, something is wrong, this isn't how an N9 is supposed to fly. I know what a Synergy is capable of and the way it is flying now isn't even close. I should put a video up so you guys can see what I mean, I don't know if I will have time though. I bought a high performance 3D 90 and what I have now isn't close.

What I would like to do is find Botos or someone at IRCHA and have them fly it.

Nick
If the wings are travelling faster than the fuselage, it's probably a helicopter
08-05-2008 01:34 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
ofir
Senior Heliman
Location: tel aviv - israel

What is the head speed?

My wife never asks me what I am thinking about: she already knows: sex and helicopters
08-05-2008 03:37 PM
 
 
wings19
Veteran
Location: Traverse City, MI

1900

Nick
If the wings are travelling faster than the fuselage, it's probably a helicopter
08-05-2008 06:43 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
ofir
Senior Heliman
Location: tel aviv - israel

I think that raising it to 2000 will make a difference.

My wife never asks me what I am thinking about: she already knows: sex and helicopters
08-07-2008 03:42 PM
 
 
pariah
Senior Heliman
Location: West Valley City, UT - United States of America

Well, if you're going to IRCHA, then you'll almost certainly get the help you want/need.

I bet it's nice living close to where they hold it. There's no way I'd trust the TSA & baggage cronies with my helicopter - since you can't lock your luggage, the baggage handlers can and do rummage through your stuff for anything of value...


--
Helicopters & Women: The last thing I want is one whose head has a few loose screws.
08-07-2008 04:48 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
wings19
Veteran
Location: Traverse City, MI

Yeah it is nice being close. I think it takes about 7 hours or so to get there. The Toledo show is pretty close also. Although I don't think I will be going to that next year, it wasn't all that great I didn't think. Not worth the gas prices to go. IRCHA on the other hand is a blast! We are usually down on the right side(facing the flight line). Everyone stop by, we usually have quite the party going on.

Nick
If the wings are travelling faster than the fuselage, it's probably a helicopter
08-07-2008 05:24 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
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Synergy R/C Synergy N9 > My N9 doesn't seem happy, a little help please.
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