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Radio - JR & Spektrum DSM > JR Japan anounced a new 12x with 2.4G DSMJ
 
 
Helinutnz
Elite Veteran
Location: below 42 South

Quote 
This would just be new s/w.

Sorry I'm not a techie....sw?

I was trying to avoid the 10mw version becasue if you can have a 100mw version it must be better right?

I'f I were to pick up a tool with an 18 volt pack it would be better than a 12 volt pack in the same tool.....at least thats my reasoning....LOL

I ended up seriously looking at two radios...the Futaba 12z and the JR 12X.
With a lot of help and discussion I decided to stick with JR and go the 12X. I looked at the Japan 12X (dsmJ) and boy the price is right especially as i will be heading up there from november on but you have to buy DSMJ receivers as they wont do DSM or DSM2. Personally I get the feeling it's not better than DSM2 just a different SS technique and therefore a different number. They say it's faster than a spektrum module but you have to wonder if they are talking about our older radios like the 10X with a module in which had a lot of latency.

Also it's an MV. So you have to look at the redundant aerial hole. If i am running 2.4 then I cant see a reason to use 72 mhz any more so why have a redundant hole in the top of the transmitter. (it uses a module aerial) unless you have a lot of 72 mhz receivers and a lot of heli's or planks that you dont worry about getting shot down with considering the large number of chinese "toys"on our frequencies.
You have to buy the 1231 or 931 receivers not sent anywhere else in the world.

I felt the futaba 12FGH and to tell you the truth it just didn't whizz me up. I felt like i was holding a plastic toy and I didn't like the LCD. Sorry 12fgh users. not meant to be a put down. It's a very capable radio but not for me. I held a 10X and it was so nice in my hands and thats an old radio. I am hoping the 12X feels as nice to hold.

Cheers
08-03-2008 05:16 AM
 
 
stupid
Heliman
Location: CA

jr 12x the way to go .
08-03-2008 01:11 PM
 
 
9387ASH
Elite Veteran
Location: UK

Nutz,

The 12X uses the same chassis as the 10X, it weighs the same (+/- 60 gram from memory).

Japan only allows very low power on 2.4 GHz DSSS but 100mW on FHSS. JR have been working on a FHSS solution with Spektrum for some time now, so it's not new in that aspect.

Not sure what roll-out they intend to do with this, perhaps a future 12XII ??? Who knows, but it is definitely needed here in Europe because of they way that each individual countries authority interprets the 2.4 GHz WBDTS rules.
08-03-2008 07:12 PM
 
 
Helinutnz
Elite Veteran
Location: below 42 South

ah thankyou. so it's a spektrum developed FHSS system. Simply speaking I dont want a low power system. I like the most powerful tool in the shop...argh argh argh. So Wether 10 mw doesn't make much difference in the real world it's still less powerful than a 100mw system so thats what I want.

I'll get the US version of the 12X.

Cheers
08-04-2008 04:43 AM
 
 
Four Stroker
Veteran
Location: Atlanta

DSMJ is a 100 mW system. Read the above post again. The USA version is actually 200 mW - grab them and grunt.
08-04-2008 02:06 PM
 
 
Helinutnz
Elite Veteran
Location: below 42 South

ohhhhhhhhoowaa....argh argh argh.....cool. Cheers
08-04-2008 09:51 PM
 
 
TmMugen
Senior Heliman
Location: Tiny Little Red Dot aka Singapore

Hi all:

Is it true that the DSM-J is of lower latency than the DSM-2?

The 12x version in Singapore is modular type and had the option to go back to PCM. But the shop told me it is DSM-2 type.

Any idea if it is DSM-2 and the specktrum products be used with it?
09-22-2008 12:31 PM
 
 
9387ASH
Elite Veteran
Location: UK

The problem is that it was designed for the Japanese home market only.

I very much doubt if it will be placed on any other market (ie Europe or the USA). Spektrum systems will not work with this variant .

Unless the powers that be decide to get it FCC / CE approved, it won't be appearing in your LHS.
09-22-2008 01:27 PM
 
 
Helinutnz
Elite Veteran
Location: below 42 South

it's a FHSS system and not DSSS....isn't that true ex mac man. So the japanese could get the 100mw instead of the limit on DSSS like the europeans.

I know you definately have to buy receivers only from japan...the 1231 and 931. And yes it's the MX version.

Also the latency thing is overblown with all sets in this newer age of 2.4 working such that most humans wouldn't notice. The JR sets have 3 frames out of three updated and everything works in sync so any latency is consistent which is easily allowed for by humans. It's worse to have the latency change change all over the place like from 19msec to 56 msec etc. Apparently JR's implementation doesn't do that.

If you intend to buy all your stuff from Japan then there would be nothing wrong with this set. Just like the 12X sold anywhere else except a different implementation of 2.4.
09-22-2008 10:01 PM
 
 
9387ASH
Elite Veteran
Location: UK

Quote 
it's a FHSS system and not DSSS

That's what I have been advised. Purely for their home market. However, thats not to say that some Far East shops won't sell it but take into consideration that it will not be FCC / CE / C Tick or any other standard tested and/or approved.

Should anything go wrong with it, you would need to send it back to the Far East as no service centre will have any technical data or spares back up.

JR will not sell spares destined for other countries.... I couldn't get Fascia plates for the XP662 at one stage because that particular set was "owned" by Horizon.
09-23-2008 01:20 AM
 
 
TmMugen
Senior Heliman
Location: Tiny Little Red Dot aka Singapore

LHS in Singapore here stating that they are bringing the 12x modular system with the DSM2 latency. Wonder if it is DSM2 then the specktrum rx be used?
09-23-2008 02:33 PM
 
 
Helinutnz
Elite Veteran
Location: below 42 South

Quote 
LHS in Singapore here stating that they are bringing the 12x modular system with the DSM2 latency. Wonder if it is DSM2 then the specktrum rx be used?

As long as it's not DSMJ which is a frequency hopping system instead of a direct spread spectrum and the current standard of DSM2 supported by any other country other than japan then yes any spectrum or JR dsm2 rx will work. The japanese system will not work with specktrum receivers or any DSM 2 JR receivers.
09-23-2008 10:06 PM
 
 
TmMugen
Senior Heliman
Location: Tiny Little Red Dot aka Singapore

Side track a bit..Is the DSMJ 100mw system in terms of latency..??
09-24-2008 12:30 PM
 
 
helirulz
Senior Heliman
Location: Singapore

transmitting power has nothing to do with latency...or am i wrong?
09-24-2008 01:37 PM
 
 
Helinutnz
Elite Veteran
Location: below 42 South

Quote 
Side track a bit..Is the DSMJ 100mw system in terms of latency..??

Quote 
transmitting power has nothing to do with latency...or am i wrong?

I don't think he meant the 100mw's has anything to do with latency. The dsmJ is a FHSS system and not a DSSS system so they could get the higher power for their stringent rules regarding dsss systems on 2.4. And yes you are right.....It should have nothing to do with latency...more to do with how the radio processes it's information and sends it out.

I somehow doubt you are going to get any info on latency from this set as the only person doing these sort of tests was JKOS and he's in the states. You could ask the Japanese but what would you like to hear? If I was going to sell you one I'd tell you anything you wanted to hear.

I seriously wouldn't worry about the latency....look at lukas riva....he has no trouble flying his trex on a 14MZ and that has worse latency (inconsistant latency which would be worse) than the 12X. Thats because Futaba has an asynchronous setup so some channels may get their information prior to others whereas the 12X sends all channels out simultaneously. (at least thats what I understand of it)
Also Futaba send one copied frame out of three to the receiver....so two actual frames and one copied frame......12X send 3 updated frames out of three. This adds to latency figures as well for the futaba.
If he can fly as well as he does with his set then I am sure the latency issue won't ba an issue at all for 98% of us.

It's a bit like the 8717 servo debate.....so fast most people expo the hell out of them to slow them down......LOL
09-24-2008 01:57 PM
 
 
TmMugen
Senior Heliman
Location: Tiny Little Red Dot aka Singapore

Helinutnz

Can I ask what radio are you using? What makes you choose it?

Just curious to know.
09-24-2008 04:23 PM
 
 
TmMugen
Senior Heliman
Location: Tiny Little Red Dot aka Singapore

Jeremy I thought you using 12FG..You changed your radio?
09-24-2008 04:24 PM
 
 
ammo
Veteran
Location: Singapore

Quote 
Helinutnz

Can I ask what radio are you using? What makes you choose it?

Just curious to know.

Becos it's a JR
09-24-2008 07:07 PM
 
 
Four Stroker
Veteran
Location: Atlanta

If you buy a DSMJ JR and ship it to JKos for a week, he will happy to test it for you.
09-24-2008 08:12 PM
 
 
Helinutnz
Elite Veteran
Location: below 42 South

Quote 
Helinutnz

Can I ask what radio are you using? What makes you choose it?

Just curious to know.

JR 12X. But I am not blinded by my choice of radio. It was almost a futaba 12Z. The two are very close and I am not into the Futaba/JR debate like the diehard fans that can't see past their own choices.

However this is why I choose a 12X.

1. Future proofing for different models and not just helicopters (futaba would be the same here)
2. I like the DSSS implementation of 2.4 over FHSS
3. I like the solid feel of the 12X. It has the 10X chassis that is metal and feels solid in my hands. The 12Z was kind of plasticky
4. The gimbal springs are firmer than the very light 12Z even on their heaviest setting and I prefer the feeling
5. I don't like the cash register style of blue on green for their LCD display on the 12Z. I prefer the 12X colours.
6. I like the roller type of input on the 12X....It's like my 9303 was. It's fast and I enjoyed using it. I wouldn't have a touch screen for two reasons....1. They get filthy with fingermarks and fuel etc and 2. They sometimes dont like working when cold and cost a lot if they give up the ghost (as plenty of 14mz fliers have found out...do a search)


What am I missing?

1. Updateability by the internet. The 12Z does that. I decided it wasn't enough of a drawcard in all honesty as the radio is very capable and can be updated by JR engineers if required at some later stage. I wouldn't download and do each update as some are adding or fixing small issues that would never bother someone and I don't like messing with the memory of the radio. I kinda prefer to have a closed system that can be updated if required at a later stage and so far I have found no "bugs" to require fixing. I have heard however of people locking up their "updateable systems" mostly by using the wrong data card i think.

2. Functionality. Switch assignability and extra functions the futaba has. JR gives you a swash mix menu. On that one screen it gives you seven functions. The 3D cyclic ring is simply off or on. I think the futaba splits off a lot of the screens and gives you the whole picture of what the 3d cyclic ring is doing with a picture. There is no pic on the JR. It's just off or on but it does the same thing. Same with other functions so I find it very well programmed and well thought out. JR really no how to make programming easy....I found that with the 9303 and it's true of the 12X as well.
You have more switch assignability than say the 9303 (9x11) but not as much as futaba. I tend to stick with the generic switch assignments and wouldn't change them between models as this would lead to mistakes and confusion.

So. JR better build quality...easy programming...DSSS if you are keen on that....very capable....stiffer gimbals....better looking LCD...synchronous system....3 frames updated out of three

and Futaba...nice to look at...more updated looks...more plasticky and lighter to hold.....light tension on the gimbals....more switch assignability....updateable by the net....FHSS....asynchronous system and two out of three frames updated so more variable latency if you think you may be able to detect it that is.

so both great systems.....I'm sure you would love either. I mentioned the 12Z as it's in the same league. The 12FGH is very capable too but too me it doesn't have the upmarket feel. Flame suit on.

either way both great radios.
09-25-2008 12:03 AM
 
 
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Radio - JR & Spektrum DSM > JR Japan anounced a new 12x with 2.4G DSMJ
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