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PowerHelis . JR-Spektrum . Gyro Hobbies

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Main Discussion > Tail Blowing Out... Me? the Heli? Both??
 
 
flustercluck
Senior Heliman
Location: newnan ga usa

Ok I have the R50 (now nicely tuned for power, yowsa!!!) with a 401/9253 on the tail.

As I get quote/unquote "better" (vague term), i.e., faster inverted backwards flight, lots of pitch pumping, elevator slams, etc, I find the tail blowing out more and more...

I mean I'll be in FBF, jam the ELE to flip it, and boom... tail blows out on me... it's only momentary, and it always quickly recovers, but when it happens it's like "Crap!! what the h*ll was that??!?"

I can induce it about anytime I want, which would (I suppose) mean that it's not mechanical-failure related.

Or is it? Is the 401 and/or 9253 going bad? Or am I flying closer to the limits of my current electronics? No glitches or anything like that. Slam the heli, tail blows out, ease off the collective, tail locks back in.

So wassup??

thx Bro's
07-17-2008 02:53 AM
 
 
Dood
Elite Veteran
Location: America's Dairyland

Get a better gyro.

If you're up to fast backwards inverted flight, its time for an electronics upgrade.

If you're bogging your engine, that might kill your tail too.
It says in your profile you're running a .40?
How about a governor? got one of those?

"El Dooderino" if you're not into the whole brevity thing.
07-17-2008 03:00 AM
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RappyTappy
Elite Veteran
Location: Las Vegas, NV

Is you want to stay with the 401, then get some carbon tail blades for fast backwards stuff. If you want to keep plastic tail blades and get locked in backwards performance, then upgrade the gyro.

Chris
Rex 500 A123 Power

Forever Brothers
Mickey Tylo
07-17-2008 03:05 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
jking
Senior Heliman
Location: artesia,new mexico

are you doing fast inverted backwards flight or is that ie. still to come.i have had problems with a 401 always relates to gain.if you are in backwards flight and losing the tail bump it a little.its very easy to say upgrade but a 401 will hold a r50 tail.
07-17-2008 03:14 AM
 
 
emag remrofni
Key Veteran
Location: Los Angeles California

It's a common misconception that you need a top of the line gyro to do hard 3d. Watch this video. I am using the 401/9254 and my tail has yet to blow out. I can even do piro funnels on it no problem. The devil lies in the setup. How long are the tail blades you using? What headspeed?



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07-17-2008 05:10 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
RappyTappy
Elite Veteran
Location: Las Vegas, NV

With the 9253, usually tail blowing out under load was always a sign of the servo losing its holding power for me. This is assuming it was working fine and then all of a sudden started having this problem.

The 401 is a plenty capable gyro, but there are better gyros out there that will perform better. I have made a telebee do pretty good 3D, but doesn't mean I want to fly it everyday. I've had many a 401 and flown it hard, but piro consistency for fast aggressive stuff leaves a lot to be desired. The video above really just shows basic pirouetting capabilities, most any new gyro nowadays even the cheap ones can do that stuff fine. For most people the 401 is a good gyro, but get a hold of a 601/611/SolidG/Spartan and it'll be fairly apparent to a capable pilot right off the bat that it feels and flys superior.

Chris
Rex 500 A123 Power

Forever Brothers
Mickey Tylo
07-17-2008 07:46 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
tchavei
rrProfessor
Location: Portugal

I'm with Rappy here. The 401 might not be the best gyro out there but properly configured and it will do ALOT.

What concerns me in the original post is this:

Quote 
I find the tail blowing out more and more...

If the failure seems to be increasing, change the servo asap. Many times we blame the gyro when its actually the tail servo that is giving you warning messages about "retirement". Besides, the 9253 hasn't exactly a good record on life expectancy (just as bad as the 9254).

Get another servo and try it out for 1 flight. If the blow out is gone, it was the servo.

Tony


--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."
07-17-2008 12:24 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
flustercluck
Senior Heliman
Location: newnan ga usa

Hey Dood, thanks for the profile info... that hadn't been updated in 2 yrs! it is now

Also, good point on the servo... I have a spare 9254 I'll try

But I think it may be related to h/s... as you recall, w/o the proper tuning (see my prev post), the h/s was in fact dropping during high-load maneuvers... although I didn't really notice a direct relationship between h/s drop-engine bog-tail blowout

But even more than that, there may be some "pilot" stuff going on here... as in, I'm still heavy on the sticks sometimes and I bog the motor (poor collective management

The tailfeathers are Ms Composit CF (95mmm?), so I don't think that's it

Lastly, last time out, I bmped the gain from my normal 65% to 70%; didn't seem to do much
07-17-2008 03:05 PM
 
 
flustercluck
Senior Heliman
Location: newnan ga usa

hey Emag.. that's some azzkicking flying there, bro... nice!

(even tho there's no smoke!!)
07-17-2008 03:52 PM
 
 
mchammer
Veteran
Location: California,USA

I have (2) 401 gyros and (2) 611 gyros. The 401 is a good gyro for the money but it doesnt have the holding power or consistant piro of the 611. not even close.it is most noticable in wind when doing piro maneuvers.with the 401 the tail (when pushed too hard) will just blow out and try to weathervane, and as you said it will eventualy recover.if your servo arm on your tail rotor servo is as short as it can be so that you can maximize the endpiont of the gyro it will help as will high headspeed.but a 401 will never be a 611 no matter what you do.I have never used a spartain but hear they are very good as well.there is a good reason that you dont see the pros using 401s in the major competitions.

Peace Through Superior Firepower!!!
07-20-2008 07:28 AM
 
 
mchammer
Veteran
Location: California,USA

Quote 
Also, good point on the servo... I have a spare 9254 I'll try

As Dood said I would agree that it will perform better on the 9254 servo.
10 oz more torque and .02 sec faster than the 9253.

Peace Through Superior Firepower!!!
07-20-2008 07:46 AM
 
 
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Main Discussion > Tail Blowing Out... Me? the Heli? Both??
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