RunRyder - Hyper 50 Temps--- Check after Auto OR Powered Landing??

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Main Discussion > Hyper 50 Temps--- Check after Auto OR Powered Landing??

flustercluck
Senior Heliman
Location: newnan ga usa

Fellas, I have a Rappy 50 w/ Hyper. Good flyer, good power. I've never owned a temp gun, always check the backplate.

Now I did a search, and I realize there's over 1,254,657 posts about this. But I couldn't find my answer. So to the experts I go.

I never land under power, and always auto down (luv them auto's!!!).
I finger the backplate; get about 5 sec depending on how hard I press.

So I'm flying w/ a buddy today, he has a temp gun. Just for giggles, after an auto, I check the b/p, it's 110-ish, F. I think, crap! That seems cool (but not necessarily to my finger!).

So I lean about three clicks. HOLY CANNOLI!!! That little Hyper came alive, wooo-hooo! Headspeed up, tail locking better, really livened up the Rappy. I'm liking this!!

I thrashed the heli around for a bit, then auto'd down again, here's what I got: 131F on the b/p, 190-ish F on the crankcase, and about 208-ish F on the blue fins.

Am I ok? It's about 90F ambient here in ATL.

My question: what's the best/most accurate method to check temps after landing... auto down, or land under power?

With these new temps, I can only stand about maybe 3-4 finger seconds on the b/p... this is far short of the "recommended" 8-10 secs.

Advice, help, recommendations?

thx guys

Jeff

07-16-2008 01:59 AM

Madskyllz
Heliman
Location: central Ct USA

I too use the heat gun and I get about 180-190F at the blue fins.
I believe the running temp should be at about 205, at least that is where mine is after a flight under power and using Magnum 30 fuel in my 600.
As you auto the motor will start to cool so temp readings may be unreliable.
Hope that was of some help.
Bob.

07-16-2008 02:19 AM

J.D. Wilson
Elite Veteran
Location: Nashville, TN

I'm with mad on this. I check my temps often. I stay between 180-200 on my hyper at the blue fins. I've never heard of the 8-10 second touch rule. I go by feel as well, hot but not too hot. You will know if it is too hot. But if you are around 200 you are ok. I wouldn't go much leaner.

Let your flying do the talking - don't talk about your flying

07-16-2008 02:49 AM

Bad Karma
Veteran
Location: UK

1800-200, thats one heck of a temperature range

07-16-2008 10:41 AM

TachyonDriver
Veteran
Location: Chipping, Lancs, UK

Must be that new fangled fission powerplant that running those temps

EDIT - only heard of between 3 and 7 seconds finger on backplate here.

It's a Raptor - just go fly!

Tach.

Little Spinning Bundle of Joy®

07-16-2008 10:45 AM

ckoelliker
Key Veteran
Location: St. Simons, GA

If you are checking the back plate, then it does not matter if you auto in or not. The back plate will actually get hotter the longer you wait to check it.

07-16-2008 12:22 PM

Eleven_Bravo
Senior Heliman
Location: Modesto,CA

This is why I do not use the finger in the backplate. Lets say there is some of us who have girlie wussie hands this means we will always be rich. Lets also say theres a guy with rough calloused hands that could touch a stove eye and still have to ask if its on this guy will be killing motors left and right. But for those who are wondering I usually get about 120 to 130F on the backplate when my motor is running correctly. As far as when I check my temps as quickly as I can safely get the temp gun on the head. The fan cools them down rather quickly.

I always use a temp gun I always check under the blue of the head on the side of the crankcase I aim for 175F if flying in normal mode at roughly 1700HS with a 8.7 gear ratio. Idle up is 2000HS and usually get 190 to 205 usually aiming for about 195F. This is another tip about a Hyper 50 you can put money on if you wish, each click on the needle is worth 5 degrees. All of these temps are per a Raytech temp gun I have a small one I use to that has been checked to within a few degrees of a Raytech. Theres another tip don't be afraid to check your temp gun against another temp gun you may just find out why your burning up motors. I consider myself an above average engine tuner there is a reason people bring me cars and things of that nature that they cannot get to run I will have it running in a few minutes or at least be able to tell them why it will not run. I hope I have helped.

Its not a maneuver until your looking down on it. ~Jason Krause~ Phoenix FF 08

07-16-2008 12:28 PM

xahhax
Heliman
Location: Switzerland, Lausanne

I also noticed the backplate get hotters as you wait? how does this happen?
I confess I rely on my carbsmart set @100 with a good travel range...
let's see. 11 galons so far on my OS 50 and no issue.

07-16-2008 01:34 PM

Topher
Veteran
Location: Grosse Ile, Michigan

Its because the fan is no longer providing airflow to the engine head. During normal operation most of the heat from the engine sinks to the cooling head. When the fan is no longer running the temperature of the head equalizes to the internal temp of the engine. Therefor a new temperature gradient is formed going to the cooler part of the engine with the least thermal resistance, which in our case is the opposing side of the crank case including the back plate area.

I use a the crank case temp after a powered landing. If it doesnt burn my finger after 4ish seconds I consider it good.

Get a life? How the hell do you fly a life?

07-16-2008 02:01 PM

HOMEPAGE

jbdww
Senior Heliman
Location: Round Rock, Texas

I am using a carbsmart and I try to keep the temp around 215F. I read somewhere that the hyper 50 is good around the 215F temp. I took my engine apart after 200 flights at this temperature and the top of the piston was still like new. I should have taken pictures of my piston. Here is a screen shot of my data logger recording a flight and the outside temperature was around 98F. The sensor is in the fins just above the combustion chamber.

Skids Up

07-16-2008 02:11 PM

flustercluck
Senior Heliman
Location: newnan ga usa

thx, fellas.... so 1) I'm good at the temps listed above (forget to tell you I run CP15%), and I'm ok to check the temps after auto-ing down, as opposed to a powered landing.

Yes?

07-16-2008 04:18 PM

jschenck
Elite Veteran
Location: La Vista, NE.

IMO checking back plate temp gets me close, in the ball park so I use it but is not the final tuning method. After that I think the best tuning method is to listen to it. Go 1-2 click at a time - If it starts to get a light cackling sound at full throttle back out the needle a couple of clicks. Always listen to it, if you even think you are going slightly lean, shoot the auto and figure out why, maybe richen it a couple of clicks.
Also if you can hold your finger on for more than 5 seconds you may be a bit rich, but that is dependent on the outside air temp. I have flow in 20 deg. F where the backplate was stone cold (I think, my fingers were near frozen) but the engine was running lean, from the sound of it.

Other nice thing about leaning it out a bit, longer flight times

...yep...

07-16-2008 04:36 PM

flustercluck
Senior Heliman
Location: newnan ga usa

thx, bro.. I know one thing: when I lean her out about 3 clicks from where I've always run it, YEEE-HAW!!! I was rockin-n-rollin!!!

like I poured a can of Red Bull in the tank.. she was a-hoppin!!

so I liked the performance, but not at the expense of engine life... at this point I can't exactly treat engines as "disposable"... if you get my drift

I check about 4 times w/ the gun, and the b/p was in the 130-135F range and the head about 205-215F

hope I can keep it there cuz I saved the 9252 servos from the Fury I sold, and they will be replacing the three JR S8101 analog servos that are on the Rappy now

think I'll see a difference?

07-16-2008 04:42 PM

jschenck
Elite Veteran
Location: La Vista, NE.

yes! I run 9252's on my Raptor with an Align 2-1 (6V to them) - very nice. I don't think you'll have to worry about burning up the engine with a head temp of around 210 but open it up 1-2 clicks and see if you still like it - You may find that 1 click back out may still run like that but be slightly cooler.

The number one killer of the OS engines is the rear bearings though so if you hear ANY bearing noise from the heli, suspect the engine bearings. They are like $7 to replace but if you wait till it starts coming apart there will be shrapnel embedded in the piston and head - I have an OS-50 like that right now and runs like doo-doo.

...yep...

07-16-2008 04:50 PM

playfair
Key Veteran
Location: Rochester, NY

Back plate temp increasing at idle

Quote
During normal operation most of the heat from the engine sinks to the cooling head. When the fan is no longer running the temperature of the head equalizes to the internal temp of the engine.

Topher, Your gradient theory is correct, but the back plate is actually kept cool by the quantity of raw fuel runing through the crank case at open throttle. Once at idle, the reduction of this incoming fuel allows the backplate temperature to begin equalizing with the head since aluminum is a great thermal conductor.

So to answer your question fluster, if you're checking backplate temp do it from a powered landing.

The sky is our canvas

07-16-2008 06:07 PM

HOMEPAGE

flustercluck
Senior Heliman
Location: newnan ga usa

so playfair... what you're in effect saying is that when I'm at altitude at hit the TH hold for an auto (remember, I can't auto down to my feet like a decent pilot yet- my autos end up landing 12-15 steps away), the engine goes to idle for the descent... at this point, heat starts moving back from the head to the b/p, correct?

Thus, when I check the b/p after an auto, it should (in theory) be a bit hotter, vs the temp I'd get from a powered landing, correct??

THEREFORE, the IR temp I get after an auto (say, 130F), is HIGHER THAN the operating temp at altitude (I run idle1 always, high rpms on the motor)

THEREFORE, if I'm say 130F after an auto, I may be, say, 125F (or less) at throttle during flight

ERGO, I'm good to go!

(Q.E.D!)

07-16-2008 06:42 PM

Eleven_Bravo
Senior Heliman
Location: Modesto,CA

Quote
thx, bro.. I know one thing: when I lean her out about 3 clicks from where I've always run it, YEEE-HAW!!! I was rockin-n-rollin!!!

When you tune the needle leaner and hit that sweet spot the Hyper SCREAMS

Quote
I check about 4 times w/ the gun, and the b/p was in the 130-135F range and the head about 205-215F

If these are the temps you are getting from your new adjustment I would say you are fine just keep a close check at this point a temp or humidity change can put you too lean I check my temps almost every flight.

[quote] Go 1-2 click at a time - If it starts to get a light cackling sound at full throttle back out the needle a couple of clicks. Always listen to it, if you even think you are going slightly lean, shoot the auto and figure out why, maybe richen it a couple of clicks. [quote]

Excellent advice it will sound like a metallic tapping also(detonation). I wish I could describe the sounds of a rich motor vs a lean one without resorting to the sounds a 3 year old would make. Use the temp gun and it will help you with what sounds mean what. Good luck and enjoy your newfound power

Its not a maneuver until your looking down on it. ~Jason Krause~ Phoenix FF 08

07-16-2008 10:31 PM

ppridday
Veteran
Location: Canadian in Detroit Lakes MN / Guarapari Brazil

Quote
I wish I could describe the sounds of a rich motor vs a lean one without resorting to the sounds a 3 year old would make.

Why wouldn't you? It happens at hundreds of flying fields every weekend by us supposed "grownups"..

Paul

"There's someone in my head, but it's not me..."

07-16-2008 11:42 PM

Yug
rrProfessor
Location: Niatirb Taerg

If you're measuring the temp after an auto, then budget for a temperature drop of around 10 degrees C. A powered landing is less and you must also budget for heatsoak. A good flight head temp is around 94'C which gives you a degree of 'safe' margin for those leaner bits of flight in nose up manouvers. Alternatively, use a Carbsmart.

Vegetable rights and Peace

07-17-2008 01:07 AM

flustercluck
Senior Heliman
Location: newnan ga usa

Ok, guys, got it. Thx for the help. I slapped the 9252's in there tonite, replacing the 8101's.

Ready to Lock-n-Load, baby!!!

Hey Eleven-Bravo (11B)- good stuff. Although, I would like to hear the sounds a 3-yr-old would make. I bet I make sounds like that every time I'm attempting a new trick, but they would be profane and not suitable for a family forum such as this.

Happy flying, gang. RR members are the best... I appreciate the helpful answers.

(shameless plug: anybody needing a 9CH Rx, a new batt, or a good used S9254 on the tail, pls check my classifieds

)

cheers
Jeff

07-17-2008 02:30 AM

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