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Scale Model RC Helicopters > tail rotor swap
 
 
cerberus
Senior Heliman
Location: Southeast Louisiana

hey guys,
i just took the plunge and upgraded to a new rig. i got lots of new goodies. the most important was the heli kit. i got a hirobo 30 size UH-1B that i am upgrading to a 50. but my question is this, the tail rotor is on the wrong side, can this be swapped easily (or within reason). i searched for any threads on this site that deals with reversing the rotor, but didnt find any. has anyone done this before? any pointers? any threads that i may have missed?
thanx guys!

$to_be || !($to_be); $that = $the_question;
02-14-2002 Over year old.
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ed vega
Key Veteran
Location: nyc, queens

hi cerberus, i've done this. depends if the gearbox , basically all you need to do is to reverse positions of the gears in the tailrotor box to ensure the tail goes upwind , clockwise. if it's a belt drive then thats easier.


02-14-2002 Over year old.
 
 
cerberus
Senior Heliman
Location: Southeast Louisiana

thanx ed!
it has a wire-drive tail located on top of the fin. as soon as it comes in i can critique the way the gears are laid out and give you a little more detail. i cant wait to get started!

larry

$to_be || !($to_be); $that = $the_question;
02-14-2002 Over year old.
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
cerberus
Senior Heliman
Location: Southeast Louisiana

woo hooo! the huey finally came in!
ed, i promised to give you some more detail on the drive train in the tail.
i am not sure if you can reverse the gears, if the pinion could be loosened (is that a word?) from the rotor shaft and then slide the shaft out the other side of the gearbox, it would then be rotating in the correct direction, on the correct side. but i dont think the pinion can be moved.
plus, would swapping the rudder control linkage to the other side be a pain in the rear?

$to_be || !($to_be); $that = $the_question;
02-21-2002 Over year old.
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ttsingram
Senior Heliman
Location: Lincoln, Ne

cerberus


Congrats on the Huey! Do make updates here as you can. I have been looking at this kit for a while now and plan to purchase ome in the future. I would rather have a .60 size Huey but I cannot afford that kind of money right now.


I don't think that I would worry about which side the t/r is on too much. If it is fairly easy to fix do it, other wise don't. There are so many different versions of the Huey most people cannot keep track. Many Hueys in "nam had the t/r on one side and to the pilots request the t/r was switched for better control. All the mechanics had to do was turn the gearbow over. Well, almost. The pusher t/r does have more control that the tractor t/r. To make a long story short, many of the Hueys had the t/r on either side at one time or another.
02-21-2002 Over year old.
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ed vega
Key Veteran
Location: nyc, queens

ttsingram, yes this is true the tail has been on both sides .. must travel up into the downwash .. my hirobo 60 iroquois tail is on the left, the tow cobra's is on the right ..

cerberus It's the gear on the output shaft that gets transposed , theres a setscrew thats holds the gear in place , do you see a sleeve or shims there?. also if the control linkage comes out from the side of the verticle fin then better off to leave it this way .. if it comes out from the back top center then that will still work for reversing the tail .

if your not sure I would leave it for now , but post a pic of it anyway so we can see it and give you further input ..
02-22-2002 Over year old.
 
 
cerberus
Senior Heliman
Location: Southeast Louisiana

thanx guys!
i really appreciate your input. if it really makes no difference which side the t/r is on
(historical reference), i may just leave it like it is. i will post the manuals diagram of the t/r assembly so you guys can tell me what you think. since i am going to put the .50 in it, i have to shave the engine mounting blocks down about .5mm. When i try to mount the engine into the bracket, it causes the bracket to spread out and then it wont fit into the frame at all!
ttsngram, i have to say that the huey kit is top notch. i had posted a thread a while back asking about the quality of the Hirobo scale kits. Ed and several other members said that the kits were good to go and i must say that they were on target. If you are looking to get one, its worth it.

maybe you guys can help me with something else kind of off the tail rotor subject...
what kind of nav lights/becons did the hueys that flew in vietnam have? were they the same as commercial ones?

$to_be || !($to_be); $that = $the_question;
02-22-2002 Over year old.
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ddavison
Veteran
Location: Brownsville, Pennsylvania

I was a Crew Chief on two Vietnam era ships, a "B" model and a "D". Both had a red rotating beacon on rear engine cowling top. Two red and green nav lights on either cabin side(top & bottom) and one white light on the rear on the tail boom. These nav lights could be switched on steady or set to flash. Under the cabin were two retractable spot/landing lights. One was near the front in the center, it retracted and also could be rotated by a "hat" switch on the collective stick. The other was further back and retracted only. Questions just ask. Dave

DaveDavison, Miniature Aircraft Field Rep. Spectra,Stratus,Furion, JR 12x 2,4
02-22-2002 Over year old.
 
 
ed vega
Key Veteran
Location: nyc, queens

ddavison , you know it better than us ..

bought my light kits from mcdaniel r/c .. they have a heli system package with a digital box that allow you to seqeunce the lights from your transmitter switches .. runs on 6v packs, check them out ..
02-22-2002 Over year old.
 
 
ddavison
Veteran
Location: Brownsville, Pennsylvania

I have the McDaniel system too. Used it on my BK117, works great. I have too make up a new battery pack. Ed are you going to the Wrams show ? If you are ,take some pictures of the scale, I'am still trying to decide what to build this year, I'am torn between a Dauphin or another BK, or a EC135(Vario of course).

DaveDavison, Miniature Aircraft Field Rep. Spectra,Stratus,Furion, JR 12x 2,4
02-22-2002 Over year old.
 
 
ddavison
Veteran
Location: Brownsville, Pennsylvania

After refreshing my memory here is some more history about the UH-1 series. Almost all of the models from the UH-1A through the UH-1H had the tail rotor mounted on the left of the ship. It also rotated down through the rotor wash(clockwise) when viewed from the right side. When the tail rotor was flipped to the right side(late H models) it rotated up through the rotor wash(counterclockwise from the right).
We would track the tail rotor blades on the B & D models with a home made tracking device, a broom handle with a 8 inch piece of rubber hose taped to the end, we would stick a black grease pencil(like a thick crayon) in the end of the hose. The ship would be run up the flight rpm, we would line up the rudder pedals(anti-torque, tail rotor petals) by looking in the chin windows and having the pilot hold them steady. We would stand on the right side of the tail fin facing to the rear, put our right hand on the tail light and slowly slide the bloomhandle/grease pencil across our right thumb until we heard it touch the t/r blades. The pencil would make a mark in the white section of the closest blade. Shut down the ship. Pull the t/boom down, adjust the pitch link to move the close blade away from the fin. Then do it all again until there were equal marks on both blades. Fun, fun

DaveDavison, Miniature Aircraft Field Rep. Spectra,Stratus,Furion, JR 12x 2,4
02-23-2002 Over year old.
 
 
ttsingram
Senior Heliman
Location: Lincoln, Ne

I stand corrected. I went through the Huey books I have and I only found one pic of a UH-1C that had the T/R on the right side. It could have been a reverse negitive at printing. I am not sure where I heard or read about the T/R being switiched but you can bet I'll keep searching until I figure it out. Anyway, I still stand by what I said earlier, if it is too difficult to switch, don't bother. That is unless you want it to be as accurate as possible.
02-23-2002 Over year old.
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ddavison
Veteran
Location: Brownsville, Pennsylvania

There may have been some late "C" models with the t/r on the right they were a more powerful model of the B with a larger engine and the "540" rotor head, a simular head to the one on the Cobra. The "C"s were Army, the "E"s Navy/Marines and I think the "F"s were Air Force. I don't know of a "G" model. The "B" and "D" had the same engine and head with the "D" having longer blades.

DaveDavison, Miniature Aircraft Field Rep. Spectra,Stratus,Furion, JR 12x 2,4
02-23-2002 Over year old.
 
 
NicheRotors
Heliman
Location: Surrey, UK

It is possible, very easily to swap the tail rotor on the Shuttle scale mechanics (wire drive). The Schweizer 300 kit with the same mechanics suggests the left hand side. Although the tail does not rotate up into the downwash this has no negative side effects on the 300 with only one fin for resistance. If you do swap on the UH-1B I would be interested in you comments because I plan on doing this myself in the next couple of months. Check my website with some pictures of the tail assembly on the 300. Site not finished yet but you will see the pics for reference.
02-23-2002 Over year old.
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pileit1
Heliman
Location: Gastonia, NC

Hey CERBERUS, I checked out the link you posted for the Aircraft Resource Center and found some pics of a UH1-N with the T/R on the right side. Maybe you could re-work the engine cowl of your B model to look like the N model? Then you wouldn't have to worry about the T/R.
But then again, if you don't plan on using your ship for scale competition, does it really matter? Most of us wouldn't know any different anyway.
02-23-2002 Over year old.
 
 
ttsingram
Senior Heliman
Location: Lincoln, Ne

The only problem with converting the UH1-B to a UH-1N is that the UH-1N has a longer fuselage with a more pointed nose. If you look closely, the UH-1D and newer, the passenger compartment is larger. It wraps around the "hell hole", or the engine compartment. They also have a smaller door in front of the main door. Kind of like the new crew cab doors on the newer pickups. They are also 3 feet longer and have a larger horziontal tail fin. Your right though, most people still will not know. I only pay this much attention because I build plastic models as accurately as possible and the Huey is my favorite chopper.
02-23-2002 Over year old.
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cerberus
Senior Heliman
Location: Southeast Louisiana

hey guys...
ok, a few questions and comments... thanx for all of the info...
pileit1, i was on the same wavelength with you, i thought about just leaving it as is and not worrying about it. i figured "who would know?" then i thought, "Only all of you guys!" And i cant look like a person to just give up at a little bump in the road! Although i dont think i will use it for competition, there is a little voice in me saying "Man, that just dont look right..." (plus, if you could have seen the bodywork i did on my old Chevelle, you would know that glasswork is NOT an option! )
so, NicheRotors, i checked out your site and it looks great, are you going to put captions by the pics as you get more of the site done?
after looking at your site and reading from ddavidson's post :

"Almost all of the models from the UH-1A through the UH-1H had the tail rotor mounted on the left of the ship. It also rotated down through the rotor wash(clockwise) when viewed from the right side. When the tail rotor was flipped to the right side(late H models) it rotated up through the rotor wash(counterclockwise from the right)."

this would be perfect, if i was to flip the tail gear case, and then reverse the tail pitch lever by putting it on the bottom like it would be normally (i dont think this would be a problem since the linkage runs on the centerline of the gear case), then the blades would rotate down thru the rotor wash like the 1:1 on the correct side. I plan on rewriting my website and posting the assembly pictures there. BTW NicheRotors, are you going to do the .50 upgrade for your huey? i had a few questions about the assembly. One of the guys from MRC/ALTEC is supposed to call me monday morning and answer them for me. i will post the questions with the answers here if you guys are interested. one is the head on the 50 sits against the bulkhead of the frame, that cant be too good for cooling. i am wondering if i need to trim some of it away?

ddavidson and ed, thanx for the info on the lights, i may go with that system you mentioned. i have the red beacon position, the searchlights position, but where exactly are the nav lights placed?

$to_be || !($to_be); $that = $the_question;
02-23-2002 Over year old.
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ddavison
Veteran
Location: Brownsville, Pennsylvania

One red/green is positioned about 10" above and centered on the sliding door The other is about 6"-10" below and at the front of the sliding door. the white tail light is on the lower rear of the fin about 10"-12" above the tail cone.

DaveDavison, Miniature Aircraft Field Rep. Spectra,Stratus,Furion, JR 12x 2,4
02-23-2002 Over year old.
 
 
NicheRotors
Heliman
Location: Surrey, UK

I plan on using the ringed OS 32. I am happy with this motor in the mechanics. However, I am concerned about the all up weight but have seen others fly this combo successfully. I also plan on using an older style shuttle rotor head with the flybar above the yoke as per the full size. To keep the weight down I probably won’t add any lights and I’ll keep the coats of paint down to a minimum. Please keep us posted about the info from ALTEC. Hopefully within a month I’ll have completed the text by the pics on the website.
02-23-2002 Over year old.
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cerberus
Senior Heliman
Location: Southeast Louisiana

update from mrc

hey guys,
i got a call from jeff at MRC today. he said that there should be no problem with the way the engine head sits against the frame.
i have an assembly question that maybe you guys could answer, the way the mechanics are designed, when i decrease collective, it puts somewhat of a 'bind' on the aileron servo, is this normal? i think the mechanics are like the Shuttle.
now another scale question, was the green canopy glass above the pilots standard on certain models?
thanx

$to_be || !($to_be); $that = $the_question;
02-26-2002 Over year old.
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Scale Model RC Helicopters > tail rotor swap
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