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Off Topics > Rove should be held in comtempt for this.

TrexRookie
Key Veteran
Location: San Francisco, CA

conspiracy?? nah... can't be..

07-17-2008 10:11 PM

Stet
Elite Veteran
Location: Long Beach CA

the truth

Ok

So basically Bush and Co. decide they don't like the way prosecutions are going against the declining number of republicans and they instead want the prosecutors to do a better job rooting out voter fraud and prosecuting the democrats since they are the ones doing it.

And they all talk about it. And they don't want their protected conversations to be used by the hostile opposition. And they have the authority to fire without cause. Finally, the firings themselves are purely based on political priorities instead of some other priority (they can all be called political).

I think that is the thesis at hand.

Now the big question becomes: Is that a crime?

Argue all day about the morality of the situation, but that is not what is at issue. Just because you don't like it doesn't make it a crime.

And if that is the biggest scandal you can come up with for Bush, you don't have much. Already the Plame scandal has run it's course and did not result in the "criminal" Rove getting busted.

Compared to real scandals of the past, this one is pretty much manufactured hype and has no legs. But Lou can get all pumped up and claim it means something big. Too bad it doesn't.

Bush's real scandal is his allowing federal government spending to grow so much during his administrations.

keepin' it real

07-18-2008 03:13 AM

TrexRookie
Key Veteran
Location: San Francisco, CA

Quote
"This is a further shift by the Bush administration into Nixonian stonewalling and more evidence of their disdain for our system of checks and balances," said Patrick J. Leahy (D-Vt.), chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee. "Increasingly, the president and vice president feel they are above the law."

I couldn't agree more. These past 7 years of lackluster performance and questionable actions proves that. If you believe otherwise, you need to take your blinders off. Here's the link to that article.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...7062800567.html

07-18-2008 03:24 AM

Stet
Elite Veteran
Location: Long Beach CA

Perfect. In this case the check and balance is the courts. Congress can pursue it in the courts if they want to. That is their next step. Nothing wrong with "stonewalling". It's called boundaries.

The rest is opinion and overstatement.

keepin' it real

07-18-2008 03:59 AM

TrexRookie
Key Veteran
Location: San Francisco, CA

There is EVERY reason to question stonewalling, especially when the given president's actions are so questionable. He might as well have a red permanent pen in hand to draw a bullseye on his shirt... If there's anyone making George W. Bush a target for scrutiny, it's... you guessed it... George W. Bush.

07-18-2008 04:08 AM

Stet
Elite Veteran
Location: Long Beach CA

question it all you want, that's a good thing. But not much different than all the other complaints we have heard for 7 years.

It's up to the courts to decide. It is a technical issue.

And it is about a 0.01 on the richter scale of scandal.

keepin' it real

07-18-2008 04:11 AM

TrexRookie
Key Veteran
Location: San Francisco, CA

oh sure... hiding potentially damning evidence from the people and from the Congress of The United States of America is no big deal....

07-18-2008 04:12 AM

Sealerman
Veteran
Location: Long Island, New York.

Quote
Nothing wrong with "stonewalling". It's called boundaries.

This is why I feel Cons like Stet are UnAmerican, they only feel this way when it comes to other Cons. I feel if you work for the U.S. Gov't you have no right to stone wall oversight. Can you imagine Stet defending a Dem stone walling anything?

07-18-2008 04:17 AM

TrexRookie
Key Veteran
Location: San Francisco, CA

The United States of America was designed so that the government would serve the people... so that the government would do what was in the peoples' best interest. There were never meant to be ridiculous privileges like that for government officers... Presidential immunity? HELL NO. If anything, mistakes committed by government officials are supposed to be punished MORE SEVERELY. But since the people who write the rules are the same people that are in office, that level of checks and balances has crumbled.

07-18-2008 04:21 AM

Stet
Elite Veteran
Location: Long Beach CA

So separation of powers is a ridiculous privelege? And the president cannot have his conversations in private?

And sealer, should therefore the democrats never stonewall?

This is much ado about nothing. Again. Won't amount to squat. You guys are taking the bait and overreacting to a non-issue.

Face it, in 7 years there have been no substantive scandals to threaten Bush's presidency. why do you think he looks so relaxed? Not like Clinton going on national TV to wag his finger and lie to your face. And I know you are ok with that given the circumstances.

keepin' it real

07-18-2008 04:28 AM

GimbalFan
Elite Veteran
Location: Copter County, Nv

Quote
in 7 years there have been no substantive scandals to threaten Bush's presidency. - Stet

Absolute, complete hogwash. You are blind. What's worse, you are blind by choice. YOUR brand of thinking is what's MOST wrong with America today.

op-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-thwõp-t

07-18-2008 04:32 AM

TrexRookie
Key Veteran
Location: San Francisco, CA

Quote
And the president cannot have his conversations in private?

If what he's talking about may have anything to do with the government, then NO!

The position of the PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES is meant to be the highest powered SERVANT OF THE PEOPLE!! Or have you forgotten that? How can one serve the people when his actions are unclear to those he is serving? He has nothing to hide from the people... He BETTER NOT. It is OUR right to know what he is doing with our country and the title that the PEOPLE gave him.

07-18-2008 04:35 AM

Stet
Elite Veteran
Location: Long Beach CA

One went to a special prospector and all he could get was stupid libby for lying about something he did not have to lie about. And he sure tried hard enough.

Substantive scandal means results Gimbal. Not trumped up BS. Like this latest rehash of old news because there is nothing new to grasp onto.

keepin' it real

07-18-2008 04:36 AM

Stet
Elite Veteran
Location: Long Beach CA

Rookie, no actually he does have the right to have private conversations with his advisers. Think about it.

keepin' it real

07-18-2008 04:36 AM

TrexRookie
Key Veteran
Location: San Francisco, CA

The President of the United States has the power to blow up the world. Literally. If there's anyone who must make his decisions known and justified by keeping the people FULLY informed, it is him.

Think about it.

07-18-2008 04:40 AM

Dennis
Senior Heliman
Location: Orygon

Stet says Democrats are wrong on everything but they cave into the Repubs who are ready to shred the Constitution as long as they can hold on to their positions for one more term, and STET suddenly says THAT is the justification and PROOF that wiretapping is okay.
----------------------------------------------------------------------

In that case, if Congress approves, then it IS OK.

They are looking for terrorists you ninny. Not the neighbor dog.

Get over it.

Still having fun with the libs. Keep it coming ladies

Proud to be a red neck.

git-r-done

...............Dennis

08-06-2008 11:17 PM

drdot
Elite Veteran
Location: So. California, Orange County.

fwiw..

While I hate government in general, I hat Islamonazis more...I have no issues with the govt. listening to my phone conversations...Most would be far beyond the ability of the average govt. drone to decipher, and I wouldn't say or write anything that couldn't be aired in public over any communication media...Why do you think they make carrier pigeons, anyway?

08-07-2008 05:04 AM

Lefortovo
New Heliman
Location: USA

So if everything is so f*cked up, why did you people vote for this mayhem in the first place?

08-07-2008 09:16 AM

Dennis
Senior Heliman
Location: Orygon

So if everything is so f*cked up, why did you people vote for this mayhem in the first place?
-------------------------------------------------------

If you really think AlGore would have been better, why don't you come up with more fake videos to prove your case?

Still having fun with the libs.

Proud to be a red neck.

git-r-done

.................Dennis

08-07-2008 03:40 PM

OzarkCopterBum
Senior Heliman
Location: Arkansas Ozarks

@Dennis

Quote
They are looking for terrorists you ninny. Not the neighbor dog. Get over it.

Just because you choose to blindly ignore government malfeasance, it doesn't mean its not really happening.

Fiddle on, Nero.

Quote
The FBI has increasingly used administrative orders to obtain the personal records of U.S. citizens rather than foreigners implicated in terrorism or counterintelligence investigations, and at least once it relied on such orders to obtain records that a special intelligence-gathering court had deemed protected by the First Amendment, according to two government audits released yesterday.

Quote
The inspector general traced the increase in the use of the letters after Sept. 11, 2001. There were 8,500 in 2000, the year before the Patriot Act broadened surveillance powers. There were 39,000 in 2003, 56,000 in 2004 and 47,000 in 2005, the years covered in Mr. Fine’s review.

http://www.aclu.org/safefree/genera...rs20080313.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/10/w...r=1&oref=slogin
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...8031302277.html

Still flyin blind.......

08-07-2008 04:29 PM

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