RunRyder - Newbie advice on old Kyosho heli I've dug out

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e-Electric Batteries & Chargers > Newbie advice on old Kyosho heli I've dug out

darren_uk
Heliman
Location: Near London, UK

I've dug out a Kyosho electric heli I bought on a whim from a pawn shop (see the gallery if you want a laugh at the tatty ol' thing - don't ask how much I paid...at that time I had more money than sense and was still on a high from buying/flying the Hirobo Shuttle)

I've a question on charging the heli's battery pack.

The specs for the battery can be seen in the first pic of my gallery (close up photo of battery and charger). I've reproduced the label here:

Charger: "12V DC TeamLine PRO-PEAK 6-7 cell Delta Peak Fast Charger 500-800mAh"

Battery pack: "Ripmax Sanyo 8.vV 1700mAh Nicad Battery (Charge @ 170mA for 14-16 Hrs)"

The charger seems to need to be connected to a, for example, car battery (judging by the clips on the input side of the charger).

The questions I have is:

I've a mains-powered battery charger I charge my glow-fuel model heli's starter battery with (a 12V motorbike battery). It can output a peak 800mA.

1) Is it OK to connect the PRO-PEAK Delta Peak Fast Charger's input terminals directly to the main-powered battery charger? It seems to be OK (both the slow (red) and fast (green) charging lights light up) and then charge the heli batteries from that? That'll save me having to mess around charging up the 12V starter battery again.

2) (I think it's OK to do this second one) Presumably I can charge the heli battery packs directly from the glow-fuel starter battery charger? (Just select a lower output lower than 800mA (it can do 180mA).

3) If (2) is the better way to go: can I go ahead and push 800mA into the heli batteries? Or should I heed the label's advice and only puy 170mA into them (the charger can output 180mA)

Is there any advantage in doing (1) over (2)? Or should I just charge the batteries directly from the mains battery charger.

04-19-2003 Over year old.

MJA
Key Veteran
Location: Cumbria-UK

Darren,
I would use the Nicad charger from a 12V battery or a proper stabilised mains power supply that can deliver at least 4A continuos,though you could get away with 1 or 2A for the charger you have now.The battery charger being used as a supply for the other charger may light the lights up etc but may itself die or ruin the nicad charger when you attempt to charge at higher current settings,or just work unreliable

Cheap Lead acid chargers generally aren't regulated (have big voltage changes as the current demand changes) and may have only basic DC smoothing,the danger is the auto peak on the charger often becomes very unreliable when using unstabilised poorly smoothed supplies

With electric flight packs of that capacity it's normal to want to charge at about 4 or 5Amps to cut the charge time down to about 20-30mins,especially at the field

If i were going to do some serious flying with the electric heli ie have more than 1 flight per day i wouldn't use the charger you have as it's
only rated 500-800mah.If you were charging at the field it would be taking about 2 hrs between charges which isn't practical unless you have a few packs already charged with you

Martin

04-19-2003 Over year old.

concept1
Key Veteran
Location: Youngstown, OH

Darren,
First let me start by saying what you have their is the first generation Kyosho EP concept. Which has some real issues. 1st is is under powered, but it does not have the stock motor in it so you May be ok. 2ond, it will just barely fly on 7 cells, figure you will get 2 minutes of flight on your battery. I had one of these and acctually liked it for tooling around but if you truely want to fly it you will need to make some changes. one of the main problems I had was with the blade tracking, everytime you touch the head you knock it out of track. to fix this you need to remove the blade grip shaft from the head, just one bolt on each. they bolt to that matal plate on the head and the shaft has the split through it to fit over the head plate. OK NOW clean it good and use some JB weld or good epoxy to glue the shaft to the head and rebolt. the problem is those shafts move on the plate and screw up the tracking, i glued the whole head together and it worked great, the newest version of the EP has a different head. now for the rest. It flys best on the kyosho krypton krystal 14T motor wich is about $20 well worth it, and I used the castle creations pegasus 35 or the jetti 35 for the esc. you will need one that will run 8 cells. you will need 8 cells to fly it good, check out www.eflightpacks.com for their 8 cell 1700mah packs, they are smaller and lighter than the 7 cell pack you now have and I got 6 minute flights with them. the batteries and charger is the main parts of this heli so you will need a good charger. you need a "digital peek charger" duratrax makes a charger that is cheap and works well called the intellepeak they are about $50 or so. what esc do you have? will it work for 8 cells, you can use 7 if you have a good motor 17T or less but i found the krypton krystal motor really rocked in this bird, it would loop, roll and piro pretty good.

JON

Good luck

04-24-2003 Over year old.

darren_uk
Heliman
Location: Near London, UK

Hi concept1,

I've been distracted hence only just read your reply: thank you for some valuable information. I still need to get new blades for this (the existing foamies are buckled - it still flies but I can't keep it over one place in a hover)

I didn't know what an ESC is, but then intuition suggested it was "Electronic Speed Controller". It looks like a Futaba FET MC110, photo is here:

The motor is labelled "Kyosho Speed Heli stock type" and a photo is here (if you can make it out):

05-02-2003 Over year old.

concept1
Key Veteran
Location: Youngstown, OH

OK, if you truly want to get this top fly good, be prepaired to spend some $$$. first, the Mc110 esc is not a good heli esc. it is good for 6-7 cells only and has a brake, which you do not want for a heli, I don't know if the brake can be dissabled, but if it can it would help. the concept will fly best on 8 cells which the esc will not handle, it will fly on 7 but will not do much more then hoover and some FF. the motor is stock I would replace it with the krypton krystal as I mentioned before. althought first I would get some micro servo's I noticed you have the s148 std's they are heavy and the micro's is what should be used, remember weight is your enemy on a electric heli. you can get some on ebay pretty cheap, that would be my first replacement item. It will fly as is, but remember what I am suggesting is to get a good heli that will be enjoyable. weight means less flight times and less power. batteries are the most critical. good batteries ar a MUST. ONLY use the cp1700cells, they are light and have great power, like from eflightpacks.com or equivilant. your std car packs will not work in a heli... this heli can pull 30 amps, good luck, get blades, then servos, i would recomend looking at a jeti esc or a castle creations pegasus 35 look at them in comparison to your futaba, again some serious weight reduction and much better power output they are about $30-50, then upgrade the motor. in all it would be about maybe $150 not including good batteries they are about $45 per pack, and not to mention a good charger, e heli's are not cheap to get started but get good equipment and you can use it on the next on too

05-05-2003 Over year old.

darren_uk
Heliman
Location: Near London, UK

Hi again Jon,

I've been reading around and there seem to be some excellent new technology batteries (from Kokar for example) that offer *long* flight times (I've heard people suggesting more than 20 minutes).

Are these OK for my heli?

05-06-2003 Over year old.

pwkpete
Senior Heliman
Location: Pewaukee, WI, USA

The Kokam are lithium polymer. You'll need a decent lipoly charger, like a Schulze or Triton. The packs you'd probably need are a 3s3p pack of the 2070's (9 cells) or a 3s2p of the 3270's (6 cells), to do hovering or FF. Kokams can only do 4c continuous discharge safely. This solution is far from cheap, and hardly worthwhile considering your still running a brushed motor.

You may want to look into using the1950 4/5FUAP cells. Small, light, and can dish out lots of current and be charged fast. I've heard only good comments on these cells. I use 3000mAh panasonics right now, and it flys great, but I'm brushless, and I get 10 minutes of flying regularly on mine. I've been considering getting a few packs of the FAUP's, with the reduced weight, I'll bet I won't loose that much flight time, but improved respose. Unfortunately I've spent my battery allowence.. (2 LiPo packs for the Logo10)

You'll want a charger that can charge the FAUP's at at least 4A (2C), or possibly even more. (1/2 hour or less charge...) Lots out there.... (Dymond, Triton, etc.)

The HS81 servos would be a good fit for this heli, and I agree with concept1, the Pegasus controller seems to be a good bang for the buck for brushed ESC's.

With light batteries like the FAUP's a good controller, smaller servos, that should get you some much better flight performance and times.

-P

You can get cheap industrial power supplies (regulated) on ebay, I got a 15A for $20.

05-16-2003 Over year old.

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