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Thunder Power RC . Mikado Modellhubschrauber . GrandRC

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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > John Crotts taking pictures of Lightning while I am running for my life....
 
 
Red-Rx7
Senior Heliman
Location: Olathe, KS - USA

Servo taken apart.

Pictures incoming.
06-23-2008 06:51 AM
 
 
Red-Rx7
Senior Heliman
Location: Olathe, KS - USA













It looks like the Yellow Wire is free floating. All of the connections look bad. It is hard to see, and my up-close pictures didn't come out well; but it looks like it is sometimes touching the solder mound.

Even some of the wires on the back side of the little circuit board seem poorly connected. I am not sure how all of it isn't really touching each other to be honest.
06-23-2008 07:00 AM
 
 
xcellgasman101
Elite Veteran
Location: WOODWARD, OKLA....

Yep,,, just what we talked about Mike,, the signal wire is loose, and it touched the power wire, and then it all went down hill from there,, Poor soldiering,,, I doubt it would do any good to send Hitec a email, with pic's. but it couldn't hurt,, That sucks,, a 50.00 servo causeing all this damage,,, And what's bad is,, you can never really tell just how good a job they do soldering the wire, on any servo, unless you take every servo apart, and we all know that's not going to happen,, Just plain bad luck of the draw.... Sorry my friend,, XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com
06-23-2008 07:08 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
pgkevet
Veteran
Location: surrey UK

Quote 
pgk,, he can kill the servo by moving the servo wire that comes out of the servo,, there is a bad soldier joint in there or a broken wire,, the servo will work if he moves the servo wires around, and it was working before he started the engine, after the engine started, the servo shorted out, went to full throttle, and died,,,

OK, just trying to understand: 'There, but by the grace of God, go I."
Remember I'm the guy that can manage to preflight his heli, fire it up and then find he missed a bit! Only got away with it 'cos getting paranoid enough about safety that first start-up of the day is followed by test throttle cut before anything got chewed

pgk
06-23-2008 07:10 AM
 
 
pgkevet
Veteran
Location: surrey UK

Those servo pics are scary! I dunno what to say - Bummer!

pgk
06-23-2008 07:14 AM
 
 
Red-Rx7
Senior Heliman
Location: Olathe, KS - USA

This is what pisses me off to be honest.

I went through all of these excercises, 1/2 of them when I was speaking to John on the phone the first time. We were talking about throttle curves, trimming, etc. I had various RR posts open about the curve needed and was playing with them on my TX at the same time.

I have no idea how this happened. Did the servo glitch because of a bad connection and vibration, throwing it full clockwise rotation? When I first started the helicopter, it idled just fine. It wasn't like the throttle was wide open from the get-go; for I was able to hold the head button without the clutch engaging. It was only a few seconds after I started to turn away did it go nuts.

When it is all said and done (not counting the Vario discount); it is going to cost me more than 400.00 to repair with shipping. Stuff happens, and it sucks - but this one really frustrates me.

06-23-2008 07:19 AM
 
 
xcellgasman101
Elite Veteran
Location: WOODWARD, OKLA....

Quote 
Did the servo glitch because of a bad connection and vibration, throwing it full clockwise rotation?

Yes... the vibs comming from the engine running cause the signal wire to touch the power wire, which cause it to go to full throttle,, I have been in the same boat, and your right,, it sucks,, XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com
06-23-2008 07:26 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
pgkevet
Veteran
Location: surrey UK

Quote 
This is what pisses me off to be honest.


...and it's worse because it was new, all that work and looking forwards to it. And then it ends up sitting there all broken, huanting you and you feel mad. And the delay for parts, quite apart from cost.

.. yeah, been there but at least it was my fault rather than dud parts...

pgk
06-23-2008 07:35 AM
 
 
hootowl
Elite Veteran
Location: Garnet Valley, Pa.

Sorry to read about this incident. The cost of rebuilding the boom/tail assy on these birds is really high. My Acrobatic is sitting right now waiting for me to install a belt drive conversion. For just over $200, I'm hoping this will be some financial relief if I have to mess with it again in the future. I can't get over what some of the individual parts cost for the Vario tail assy. Joe Howard has helped me out over the last couple of years and has even sent me stuff free of charge to resolve issues. The issues were resolved.

Servos do take a beating on these gassers because of the higher vibes associated with the motor. I had the aluminum bracket that holds the throttle servo on my Acrobatic crack and also has an aluminum aftermarket tail servo mount crack. I've since added some rubber isolation on the mounts which seems to have taken care of it.

Member Bog Troll Club #1
06-23-2008 09:45 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Eleven_Bravo
Senior Heliman
Location: Modesto,CA

If that was my new servo and the 400 was going to have to come out of my pocket I would be giving hitec a call. They may tell me to f me in my a but if they did I sure would never use any more hitec products.

If it was a year old and it happened it would be different or it was a transfer from another machine or it had been crashed or something. If its new out of the box for this machine they had better do something. JMHO

Its not a maneuver until your looking down on it. ~Jason Krause~ Phoenix FF 08
06-23-2008 12:37 PM
 
 
SuperSixTwo
Senior Heliman
Location: Lockwood, NV

Wow, now that's a way to break in an engine! I'm glad to hear you didnt get hurt!
Along with all the stuff that you need to replace, might wanna check the radio as well. If the signal wire touched the power, might have jacked your rx.
I know everyone says "sorry" but that doesn't put your heli back in the air, but here comes mine, Sorry for ya!
Oh, and nice storm pics too!
06-23-2008 04:35 PM
 
 
j.8
Senior Heliman
Location: Denmark

Hey

Well.. glad to hear you did not got kissed to bad by
the blades.
Get back in the air as soon as possible, ofcause it`s
good to why it happend, but it seems that John Gasman
was right with his diagnose. I have said it before, it`s
good to have you around John

What can I say **** happens

Regards Bo
06-23-2008 05:02 PM
 
 
rbort
Elite Veteran
Location: Franklin, MA - U.S.A.

Doesn't happen often

But it DOES happen. I had my Concept 30 one time roll over from a hover right into the ground when the wire broke off inside like this on the circuit board of the aileron servo.

The only way to protect yourself from these things is to replace servos after a predetermined time and hope that the new ones are good out of the box. Having a non driven tail will save you in this event as well, so it adds to the safe landing chances while a driven tail nails you to the ground. You only lose aerobatic autos with a non driven tail which is not a high priority on my list. I know just a side bar note, but it came out of me and I couldn't hold it back! (I've experienced full travel peg on my rudder servo on the 1005 as well and survived the auto landing to talk about it!)

-=>Raja.

1005 Xcell Gas, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator
Spectra-g, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator
06-23-2008 06:23 PM
 
 
j.8
Senior Heliman
Location: Denmark

"The only way to protect yourself from these things is to replace servos after a predetermined time and hope that the new ones are good out of the box."

Hi Raja

Hov long do you usually run your servo` ?

It`s nice having you experienced guy` around, cause
the things you know take`,well.. some time to learne.

Setting up the heli, tuning the engien that` the easy part

Regards Bo
06-23-2008 07:38 PM
 
 
chinnook
Senior Heliman
Location: Corpus Christi TX USA

I am looking for a kill switch, pics and infor , (42 products) anyone? I have the benzine trainer with gv-1.

chinnook
06-23-2008 08:04 PM
 
 
rbort
Elite Veteran
Location: Franklin, MA - U.S.A.

j8

The magic number is 300 flights/75 hrs. When you get there, time to get them out.

Statistically, 0 to 200 flights should be no failures, 200 to 300, the probability is low, over 300 the chances are getting pretty high, and over 350 flights you're on a crash wish!

-=>Raja.

1005 Xcell Gas, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator
Spectra-g, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator
06-23-2008 09:16 PM
 
 
AceBird
Elite Veteran
Location: Utica, NY USA

Quote 
I then let go of the head and look behind me to where my TX was laying the ground. In that two second instant that I look behind me, the blade spins and wacks my knee. (Not very much momentum, as it was about an inch away from it anyhow). I fall backwards as the motor spins to full RPM.

Oh my God! Praise the Lord you are not dead. John, is this a newbie under your wing?!!!!

Quote 
Frantically, I try everything possible to stop it without physically touching the helicopter.

Once you let go of the rotors there is not much you can do in this situation unless you had a CO2 fire extinguisher or a supply of pressurized water that you could squirt in the intake to kill the engine. A maiden is a maiden. What does that mean? It means the first time you do anything, start the engine or fly the heli you have no assurance on what it will do. So you better be prepared.

Although in your case it wouldn’t matter, never let go of the main rotor until the radio is in your other hand. Even if it didn’t matter in your case the radio should have the throttle locked in the idle position so you can get away from the heli and survive a bumped throttle stick.

My maiden start ups are done like this:



Many people don’t like to restrain the heli but if you had this test stand / heli transport device, there are several ways you can safely kill the engine in a short period of time. The only thing you would have needed to replace after the episode you just witnessed is the throttle servo.

So John, tell us all what you instructed this newbie (who almost lost his life) about first start ups. I can’t wait to hear.

Ace
What could be more fun?
06-23-2008 09:17 PM
 
 
Red-Rx7
Senior Heliman
Location: Olathe, KS - USA

Ace, thanks for the harsh and sarcastic words.

I have no qualms admitting that I am new to the gasser world, and being that I didn't transition correctly when starting the helicopter.

I just about followed my normal start up sequence that I do with my nitro birds, the main difference being that I had to pull start something rather than using a starter wand. It is different, but I did have my throttle hold on when I started it like I do with my nitro helicopters. I also have a hold of my nitro birds with my TX, as the size makes it very convienent to do so. After it started, there was no clutch engagement so I let go to grab the tx and walk to a safe position.

I don't mind critism to anything that I did or did not do; but I do not appreciate the tone used against John Crotts. I only mentioned him in this thread because I did appreciate him answering some questions I had before and after the event. In reality, what happened has nothing to do with John more so than any other RR member including you.

Being that hindsight is 20/20; your setup looks like it would have been well worth it. It is unfortunate that I didn't think to ask about specific lock down methods, but I don't fault anyone else for not openly offering it either. As you know (I have read many of your threads as well); everyone has an opinion and many times they are not the same.

Hopefully any potential new or even experienced pilots with any models can walk away from some of the ideas presented in this thread, which could potentially save them an expensive repair. I do thank you for your insight, and will take it under advisement next time.

Mike
06-23-2008 10:10 PM
 
 
xcellgasman101
Elite Veteran
Location: WOODWARD, OKLA....

Hey Mike,, did you have a chance to talk to Joe, at Vario yet,,, If so,, what was the outcome,, I would atleast give Hitec a call or email with a pic of the servo,, I doubt they will pay for the repairs but it never hurts to ask,, With this being a new out of the box, servo,, they might just do something??? Well I hope today was better for you, as I know you probley didn't get much sleep last night, going over everything in your head, over, and over again,, Again,, if there is anything I can do to help... Just ask,, XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com
06-24-2008 01:11 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
xcellgasman101
Elite Veteran
Location: WOODWARD, OKLA....

Here is Hitec contact info,, just incase you want it,, you might allready have this,, but here it is,, XGM/VGM

Hitec RCD USA
12115 Paine St.
Poway, CA 92064
Phone: (858) 748-6948
Fax: (858) 748-1767
Email: service@hitecrcd.com
Hours: (8:00am - 4.30pm M-F)

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com
06-24-2008 01:20 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
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