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e-Align T-REX 450-500-600 > T-REX 500 Torque tube Wow!
 
 
Rymps
Senior Heliman
Location: Indianapolis and Windsor CO

I installed the new torque tube in my 500 testerday and got some flights on it today. Wow this is the way to go. The tail held better and i was able to raise my gain fro 50% t0 60% and now it hold like a rock. I am using a 401 with a 9257 tail servo. Anyone els notice the difference?
06-23-2008 02:19 AM
 
 
sexytime
Heliman
Location: Commack

I was able to up my gain as well. Its a cool upgrade. Other than that, It autoed a bit smoother.
06-23-2008 03:19 PM
 
 
steffgiguere
Veteran
Location: St-Eustache, Quebec, Canada

I have not yet changed my gain...I will try tomorrow.

I wish I could fly 24/7
06-23-2008 03:28 PM
 
 
Rymps
Senior Heliman
Location: Indianapolis and Windsor CO

Quote 
Other than that, It autoed a bit smoother.

My heli flies a lot smoother with the torque tube. The tail is lock in. There seems to be a little more at the end in an auto as well. There is just less drag with the torque tube.
06-23-2008 03:44 PM
 
 
IflyF3D
Heliman
Location: Brisbane, Australia

Wont you just wear out the tail servo faster by upping the gain. JK only uses 37%?

I have used this for years with no problems.

Chris
06-25-2008 08:19 AM
 
 
The_Widowmaker
Key Veteran
Location: Huntington Beach, CA

Quote 
The tail held better and i was able to raise my gain fro 50% t0 60%

50% gain on gyro sens should not even be used, at least if your using a 401 or 770. 50% gain using ATV sounds high as well using the same gyros. Sounds like you had a setup problem. I never had problems with the performance using the belt so I saw no difference when going to torque tube. I guess if someone was running a tight belt and then switched they would see a difference.

"I'm a Virgin.. I'm just not very good at it. "
06-25-2008 01:37 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Rymps
Senior Heliman
Location: Indianapolis and Windsor CO

Quote 
I guess if someone was running a tight belt and then switched they would see a difference.

I would say my belt was tight. Maybe to tight, but it would loosen up on me after three flights.

50% gain i don't think is that high. other people usingthe 401 or the 770 are at 70%. Upping the gain locks in the gyro. If i ran 37% my tail would blow out.

In the 401 manual on step 4 of the flight adjustment it says:
"Set the gyro sensitivity to the point just be for the helicopter begings to hunt"

http://manuals.hobbico.com/fut/futm0807-manual.pdf

For me i am up to 60% Is this right? What are others running?
06-25-2008 03:16 PM
 
 
The_Widowmaker
Key Veteran
Location: Huntington Beach, CA

No there are two different ways to set your gain, the Gyro Sens Menu and End Point Adjustment (EPA) or sometimes called ATV. Selecting 50% in the Gyro Sens Menu is not the same as setting a value of 50% using ATV or EPA. Gyro Gain values get thrown around here so loosely without specifying what method is being used. The people you see posting value gains of 70% are most likely using the Gyro Sens Menu.

As I stated before, if your using a 401 or 770 you should not be using a value of 50% if using the Gyro Sens Menu. The instructions for both these gyros state this. If your using EPA/ATV then on an average, correctly setup 500, I would expect a value in the 30% range but not 50%.

This is from the PDF you just linked..

Quote 
transmitter GYRO setup screen sensitivity setting is 50%, the GY401 gyro sensitivity becomes zero.

If your using a Gyro Sens Feature on your transmitter then 60% sounds ballpark.

"I'm a Virgin.. I'm just not very good at it. "
06-25-2008 03:35 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
The_Widowmaker
Key Veteran
Location: Huntington Beach, CA

I have posted this no telling how many times but until they have a sticky option I will keep doing it

GYRO SENS MENU with values from 0% to 100%
For example in this image if you selected 0% on the SENS MENU, you would be in RATE MODE at 100% gain. If you chose 100% on the SENS MENU you would be in HEAD HOLD MODE at 100% gain. If you set the value anywhere from 40% to 60% you would be in the RED ZONE, which futaba does not recommend.


Values in Menu
RATE:_______NORM:0
0:72%_______STNT:1
1:68%_______HOLD:0

On the left you set two gains represented by 0 and 1. On the right you select which of those gains will be used by each flight mode. STNT 2 is not listed but is the same as STNT 1.

So from the settings above when the flight mode switch is in the NORM position, my gain is 72% but when I switch to FLIGHT MODE 1 it automatically changes to 68%. Both 0 and 1 are HH modes. To make one of them Rate, just set it to a value from 0% to 40%.


GEAR CHANNEL ATV with values from -100% to 100%
Note that on the DX7 the gear switch at postion zero uses the PLUS value in the ATV menu and position 1 uses the MINUS value in the menu.
For example with your GEAR SWITCH in the zero position you can change the ATV + value. At its default +100, you would be in HEAD HOLD MODE at 100% gain. Turning that value down to +60 would be HEAD HOLD MODE at 60% gain. Switch to position 1 and you can now change the ATV - value. At its default -100% you would be in RATE MODE at 100% gain. If you set the plus side anywhere from 0% to +10, or the minus side anywhere from 0% to -10% you would be in the red zone, which futaba does not recommend.


NOTE: JR says not to use range between -1 and +1 when using TRV ADJ. -1 is 0 gain in rate mode and +1 is 0 gain in HH.

When using Gyro Sens do not use between 49 and 51. 49 would be 0 gain in rate mode. 51 would be 0 gain in HH.

So on the JR do not use 0 when using TRV ADJ or 50 when using Gyro Sens.


"I'm a Virgin.. I'm just not very good at it. "
06-25-2008 03:47 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
IflyF3D
Heliman
Location: Brisbane, Australia

I use a 611/9257 - 37% Gain on main Gyro screen. Everything else 100% (except Gear channel ATV to set the 37%)

It shakes when giving it hell, I have dropped it to 34% and it doesn't shake at all but feels nicer doing Huricanes etc @ 37%.

Widowmaker... Very Good explanation on your posts.
You are an asett here mate =)

Im going to Print that table out for newbees at the club if that's ok? Picture is worth 1000 words.



Chris G

Here's my 611 install for those interested.. had a few pm's

06-26-2008 02:23 AM
 
 
cassat
Veteran
Location: Alberta,Canada

Does anybody have a close up pic of the torque tube?
Also do you know the outside diameter? 0.25 in ?

Thanks
06-26-2008 04:12 AM
 
 
Rymps
Senior Heliman
Location: Indianapolis and Windsor CO

The_Widowmaker
Great explanation. But if you are using a radio like a 9C or a 14MZ like i am then you will set the radio to GY for head hold and not use ATVs. ATVs on the futaba radios set the max piro rate.Here is my set up:

14MZ
Gyro sens 60% in head hold
ATV rate 97% on the rudder channel (piro rate, this is fast enough for me righ tnow)
100% on the Sens channel( This is important. If you lower this value you will be the actual % of the gain. ie 50% ATV on the gyro sens channel, and 60% gain set on the radio = 30% actual gain)
I only run in head hold mode. I don't have a need to run in non head hold.

The 401 uses a higher percent than the 601 or 611. Not sure why, but it has aways been this way.
06-30-2008 04:23 AM
 
 
HybridHeli
Heliman
Location: East Texas lawman

We have to be careful when specifying gain as a number value. Some radios like my old Hitec Optic 6 gain ranging from 0 to 100 where 50 is neutral and 0 is full gain rate mode and 100 is full gain heading hold. In such a case, 70% gain is very reasonable. I believe this is the case the gyro instructions were designed for.

However, but some radios like my DX7 has the gain ratios from -100 to 100 with 0 being neutral and -100 is full gain rate mode and 100 is full gain heading hold. In such a case a gin of 30-40 is about right. In such a case (as I have painfully found out) setting a 70 in the gain is just way to high.

That is basically to paraphrase (with apologies) what widowmaker says but it allows for explanation of 70% gain being ok in certain cases.

__________
nothing automatic about autorotations man..
07-03-2008 01:17 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
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e-Align T-REX 450-500-600 > T-REX 500 Torque tube Wow!
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