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Ron’s HeliProz South . Century Helicopter . MTA Hobbies

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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > Preddie again
 
 
xcellgasman101
Elite Veteran
Location: WOODWARD, OKLA....

While we are talking about this,, Do you have your crystal taped in, so it can't viberate out?? If not, Do it, as a gas engine does viberate more, and can cause the crystal to come out, and loose control completely,,

Quote 
..my handle elsewhere is 'crash your way to success'

You do have a very good outlook on life,, Your going to be testing this statement throught out your Heli Hobby experiance,, As do we all,, XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com
06-27-2008 03:28 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
pgkevet
Senior Heliman
Location: surrey UK

Raja

Quote 
Be careful with wires on the Spectra-g -- the frame edges are quite sharp so make sure they don't rub on the edges and get cut. Either cover the edges, reroute the wires or protect the wires.

So far it looks like they'll nearly all run inside the frame away from the edges.. but I do have servo braid anyway and split tubing to glue over edges. As you've gathered I'm getting quite experienced at heli rebuilding

Outta interest.. I meant to ask your definition of a 'flight'.. Is that per tankful or 10-12 minute jaunts? Looks like Preddie would do 35 mins of sports flying on a tank and that's way longer than my ability to concentrate?

jschenk

Quote 
sorry about the pred going in again - gotta say, really like your attitude though! It's tough for me to accept a crash not due to LOFT (lack of f'n talent).

..I think I prefer pilot error when trying something new as opposed to dumbthumb or mechanical.. but no point bleating about it.. I can't beat gravity and the ground's hard - otherwise I end up another old fart who hovers it for 5 minutes on a windless sunday..

Just frustrated how slowly I learn..

pgk
06-27-2008 03:36 PM
 
 
pgkevet
Senior Heliman
Location: surrey UK

Quote 
Do you have your crystal taped in, so it can't viberate out?? If

2.4 - can't even claim a glitch

pgk
06-27-2008 03:38 PM
 
 
rbort
Elite Veteran
Location: Franklin, MA - U.S.A.

A flight

A flight is 15 minutes. If your tank holds more fuel then just land and take a break as after 15 minutes you need a rest anyways.

That's why I put in a 16oz tank in the Spectra. You can get a 15 minute flight and have about 1/4 tank reserve so you'll never run out in flight (as you can't see the tank).

I remember on my first gasser back in 1997, it took me about 75 flights to lose the "fear factor" and start getting comfortable with the big presense of the machine in the air. Not only that but it takes some time too to get everything ironed out so you run out of "adjustments" you need to do and such. On the Spectra-g I remember it took about 22 flights before I started enjoying it. But that was my 2nd gasser and I had 8 years experience by then.

Take your time and enjoy the gassers, they will give you plenty of flight time to practice and fine tune your moves.

-=>Raja.

1005 Xcell Gas, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator
Spectra-g, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator
06-27-2008 03:46 PM
 
 
Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

Quote 
..I think I prefer pilot error when trying something new as opposed to dumbthumb or mechanical.

100% agree. If I dork it because I suck, at least I had control over it. A mechanical failure just pisses me off, all I can do is sit and watch it happen.

What I did on my Spectra build worked out well. When I destroyed my Pred, I ordered some extras of the material Century uses to separate the fuel tank from the frame. That stuff works awesome on sharp frame edges to prevent rubbing, and I put it everywhere that wires came in contact with the frame edges on the Spectra. I put the receiver on the front tray and hid all the wires inside the frames. To protect them I pulled out an old trick. I cut a mousepad (it's great material for vibe isolation and rubbing) into a wide strip and wrapped it so it forms a cup inside the frame on the bottom where the wires sit. They never touch CF, they only touch the soft foam rubber mouse pad material.

Just an idea. Sorry about your crash, how bad is the damage? Your description makes it sound like a basic boom, blades, and shafts crash.


Nick Crego
I swear to God, I'll pistol whip the next guy that says Shenanigans
06-27-2008 03:50 PM
 
 
pgkevet
Senior Heliman
Location: surrey UK

Quote 
Your description makes it sound like a basic boom, blades, and shafts crash

..add some carbon and aluminium to that and skids and you're about there..

I won't know absolutely until I dismantle the whole front end .. some of the frame parts may just be 'sprung' under distorsion although there are a couple of cracked bits.. but not shattered jigsaw stuff.. possibly even mendable with an epoxy/ally sandwich and fine bolts.. the tray could be pounded back to submission, flight pack is a concertina..canopy's a write off, but oddly I sourced one of the last chequered one's (only green, I fancied purple but they are hen's teeth at the moment) last week and it's in the post..

I have a few chores to do first before facing it..the worst one is finalising the quarters vat returns (be grateful you don't have that tax) and sending the government about £25k (near $50K)

pgk
06-27-2008 04:13 PM
 
 
pgkevet
Senior Heliman
Location: surrey UK

Quote 
I remember on my first gasser back in 1997, it took me about 75 flights to lose the "fear factor" and start getting comfortable with the big presense of the machine in the air.

I got serious respect for helis after one injury last year with the 450. But not fear. The biggest issue for me is getting a feel for the inertia factor..that's entirely different to anything I've flown and I'm just about getting to appreciate how much I need to plan ahead.

I chucked the 600e into some loops after the preddie went down ..and suddenly that's so easy in comparison .. you can jink it about all over the place with plenty of time..

pgk
06-27-2008 04:22 PM
 
 
pgkevet
Senior Heliman
Location: surrey UK

Damage report - could have been worse..

..for the sake of a shoe..

Boom 855mm heavy duty HW6062BH
Torque tube for above HW6063BS
Main shaft HW6053
Feathering shaft HW6180A
Main Blades
Skids (but this time tubes etc OK) HI6122
Front x-frame HW6112B
Front tray HW6112C
L&R lower front carbon frame HC6001-5 & HC6001-6
Rt carbon servo frame HC6001-8
Flybar HW6173
and the plastic flybar control cage but I'd ordered a metal and hadn't fitted it yet..add canopy and flight pack

pgk
06-27-2008 08:23 PM
 
 
AceBird
Elite Veteran
Location: Utica, NY USA

Quote 
What gets me is when people say, by running more oil, your safer, NOT TRUE!

Raja, … Raja,… bite your tongue.

Quote 
John believes no amount of oil will save you but I disagree and know that you'll have more room for error or forgiveness with the needles the more oil you have.

Now you did it. All I got to do is go on a short little vacation and you got to start with John. Oh well he’ll just have to cope…

PGK, If I were you I would stick with the Preddy. It will be cheaper to rebuild and take less time than the Spectra. The Spectra is really meant for experts like John. When you get like John you won’t have to worry about how much oil you use.

Ace
What could be more fun?
06-30-2008 01:06 AM
 
 
rbort
Elite Veteran
Location: Franklin, MA - U.S.A.

Hmmm...

Quote 
PGK, If I were you I would stick with the Preddy. It will be cheaper to rebuild and take less time than the Spectra.

Ace, have you read Nick's posts about the Spectra versus the Predator? According to him the Spectra is easier to work on than the Predator.

-=>Raja.

1005 Xcell Gas, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator
Spectra-g, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator
06-30-2008 02:12 AM
 
 
turbogti
Veteran
Location: St. Andrew, Jamaica

Nick i know how you feel, after i crashed for the first time a few months back i was eager to get the bird back up and running. So after getting her rebuilt and ready, two flights in she went down again due to one of the most simplest errors/oversights ever, "Lack of loctite" this was on the elevator ball.

Anyway after making a small order and having a greater respect for pre-flight checks i'll be back in the air to log some hours on this baby. This time though i'll have done something a bit different, i'm stripping the heli down and rebuilding her from scratch.

****Predator Gasser SE - She's Ready to rumble ***
06-30-2008 03:00 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

Quote 

Ace, have you read Nick's posts about the Spectra versus the Predator? According to him the Spectra is easier to work on than the Predator.

The Spectra is definitely much easier to work on, I wouldn't dump a Predator to change to a Spectra, but there is a difference. Nothing like the older 1005 gassers.


Nick Crego
I swear to God, I'll pistol whip the next guy that says Shenanigans
06-30-2008 03:37 AM
 
 
pgkevet
Senior Heliman
Location: surrey UK

The definitive answer

Since I've built both close together, have no axes to grind and accept that my view is just my view based on my experiences:

How easy a heli is to work on has more to do with familiarity with that heli than it has to do with it's absolute construction. Once you know where the bits belong and don't have to refer to the manual every screw and nut then it goes fast.

OK so the predator has stacked frames and spacers that make it look difficult to take apart but a little forethought and having the multiples ca's together and it really doesnt take that long to do.

Yes if all you ever need to do it drop the engine.. then it's quicker on the Spectra but if you start to consider things like fixing after a crash or the less common maintenance issues then the Predator has a lot going for it. .. way easiee to swap out a boom and torque, way easier to get a bent flybar out and way easier to access the electronics. It has a simpler approach to clutch and bell - but that is one of it's downfalls too.

At the same time there is no question that the Spectra has a better loking and smoother stock head, better aligned clutcha nd bell and nice looking tail. It looks lighter and probably is.

I'm in no position to comment about the way they fly

The Spectra has less clearance to the starter unless modified on the skids, has a tiny stock tank and my issues on the build were with the flybar, grips, silly circlips and getting tidy wiring. Whereas with Predator the issues were more with learning to dial a fan than the machine. Then the way the stacked frame wedged onto the fan shroud and aligning the frames halves.

I can swap a boom out of the Preddie is 10 mins (wow, experience you don't want)

the Preddie looks old in design comapred to spectra but that doesn't mean its bad or flies bad.. its a substantial machine. Cracking a sub frame on preddie has to be better than cracking a frame on the Spectra

Its pointless knocking either machine.. they are what they are and they're both cool.. and yes I probably like the technical looks of the spectra more but suspect I'll actually fly the predator more (if it'll stay in the air for more than a morning).

What i have learned from building them both is that the Spectra would be so much better with some attention to simplifying it's build and the Predator could also be reworked into a sexy machine with little effort.

What bugs me about them both is how the stock versions aren't quite right. Its time manufacturers upgraded stock versions instead of selling upgrades.

pgk
06-30-2008 06:52 AM
 
 
AceBird
Elite Veteran
Location: Utica, NY USA

Quote 
Its pointless knocking either machine.. they are what they are and they're both cool.. and yes I probably like the technical looks of the spectra more but suspect I'll actually fly the predator more (if it'll stay in the air for more than a morning).

So who is right Raja? I base my comment on piece part count. Spectra has way more than Preddy. Preddy has a wrap around frame that gets much of it's strength from the casting of the engine. This makes it harder to get at but stronger. I kept that concept with my frame design and also made it very easy to get at the clutch and motor.

I still think the Spectra would be more costly to repair in a serious crash. I would not recommend the Specrtra for a beginner but obviously you do. Difference of opinion.

Ace
What could be more fun?
06-30-2008 06:03 PM
 
 
rbort
Elite Veteran
Location: Franklin, MA - U.S.A.

I hate to say it this way

But I'm not so sure you liked the design of the Predator frame either...Didn't you redesign the whole frame yourself?



Really the frame only needs to be strong enough to fly. If it holds up to crashes that's an added bonus, but its not a requirement so to speak as lighter is better for overall performance as you've done when you made yours and saved an ounce.

-=>Raja.

1005 Xcell Gas, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator
Spectra-g, BHH G26 3D Plus, Jewel Generator
06-30-2008 06:19 PM
 
 
Eury
rrProfessor
Location: Ankeny, IA, USA.

Quote 

I still think the Spectra would be more costly to repair in a serious crash. I would not recommend the Spectra for a beginner but obviously you do.

You'd recommend a Predator to a beginner? That's terrifying. Neither are beginner's machines. I do completely agree that the Spectra is more expensive to repair in a crash.


Nick Crego
I swear to God, I'll pistol whip the next guy that says Shenanigans
06-30-2008 07:15 PM
 
 
AceBird
Elite Veteran
Location: Utica, NY USA

Quote 
But I'm not so sure you liked the design of the Predator frame either

In some respects that is true. The built up lower frame set makes it a bit of a chore for a novice to get lined up with all the screws and spacers. This seems to be common for most helicopter designs not just the Predator. For those of you who want to improve the design you don’t have to go to the extreme that I did. All you have to do is make the spacers threaded. Permanently install a threaded stud in one end that screws to the upper frame set and then use short screws in the other end of the spacer to attach the upper frames to the lower frames. That will make assembly and alignment a piece of cake. The real problem of this assemble is that the spacers have clearance holes and the long screws have to clamp the uppers and lower frames at the same time with the same screw. If you were to make this simple change you will thank me every time you disassemble and reassemble the uppers to the lowers.

Quote 
You'd recommend a Predator to a beginner?

I was using the term “beginner” as a gasser beginner not so much a heli beginner. If you are a heli beginner you must proceed with extreme caution. I would not recommend starting with a gasser if you are weak in mechanical skills. RunRyder is a fantastic information tank but I am not sure you can get through the process safely if you cannot differentiate the good from the bad.

Ace
What could be more fun?
07-01-2008 05:37 PM
 
 
pgkevet
Senior Heliman
Location: surrey UK

Quote 
. The real problem of this assemble is that the spacers have clearance holes and the long screws have to clamp the uppers and lower frames at the same time with the same screw

The only issue with the system is the method whereby sometimes there are two spacers to snag with the screw.. my solution was to stack then on the bolt with a drop of CA.. then a doddle to get them screwed between the frames.

I really didn't have an issue with that part - more the difficulty of holding everything aligned and that becomes easier with practice or thought.

It's actually better to just snag a selection of these spacers loosely and then make the alignment and then use the engine stabilising system instaed of the way I did it first with the ESS then the frames.

Familiarity makes a big difference but the Predator is surely easier to do major work on than the Spectra. Really it's only issue is engine access and the x-frame mod takes care of that.

Equally there's no doubt that the Spectra has better engineering on the power train. To repeat myself.. they both have weaknesses in ease of build and repair.

Predator really needs to provide better shafts.. nice shiney stainless steel stuff that looks encouraging, to make an x-frame premodified and to find a solution so some of those back to front bolts where the nut is outside.. Oh and it needs to label its bags of bits properly... and upgrade to less plastic

Spectra has a problem with wiring access, those blade grips onto the shaft bearings.. for sure needs big letters in the manual saying use a heat gun if that does work as Raja states.. but mine was very very tight as was my flybar. The tail pushrod is clumsy, the parts count variation is unnecessary. For a lovely engineered bell,clutch,head and tail they ought to lose all their plastic and go for perfection. If they lost the engine mounting option then it would be easier to tidy up.

Oh and my front canopy standoffs are either too short or the canopy is wrong.. I tied to gently flex it inward to bolt on to them and it split on the bottom seam.. so I gotta mend that sometime (taped for now) and extend those stand-offs.

Stock they both stand the same height.. the spectra does that by having less ground clearance..might be a nuisance for unclipping the pull start. This means that spectra has a lower CofG so ought to stay upright better but that might not be ideal for 3D folk

pgk
07-01-2008 09:39 PM
 
 
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Model Rectifier Corp . PowerHelis . JR-Spektrum

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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > Preddie again
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