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JR-Spektrum . Gyro Hobbies . E-flite

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Gasser Model RC Helicopters > Preddie again
 
 
pgkevet
Senior Heliman
Location: surrey UK

OK finally rebuilt, re-dialed, re-checked, head reworked etc. Hope it's not raining tomorrow:

+/-10deg set. Idle down Ptch 25,43,50,75,100 Thtle 0,20,38,55,100
Idle up 0 ,25,50,75,100 thtl 100,55,38,55,100

I like it identical mid to top in both - keeps transition easy for the newbie and it's how I fly my other helis.

I really don't need to bring this back in a bag again..

Game plan is 1/4 tanks, tachs and rest.. check temps (2nd fin by exhaust?)

This carb is still on it's factory preset : what I need to know without confusing and subjective expressions is:

How long engine time to see a colour change in the plug. Nice chocolate last time.
The colour is something I can understand.

What sort of temperature is a warning?

Is high temperature always a sign of lean?

Target headspeed on 14t pinion? 1700-1750?

Last time it happily idled on the ground, happily took off smoothly and it was forward flight that gave me what i called 'ocassional burbles'. Such dscriptions are iffy. So:

If the engine starts to fire abnormally..doesn't matter what the sound.. but heli is flying. The how long to recognise a plug colour or temp change?

I need a baseline temp to go from.. so gentle hover how long to get a meaningful measurement?

If I have no problems at the hover then assume low needle reasonable?
To fine tune that needs faster throttle to hover power?

If OK at both those states but lacks power to climb from hover then high needle adjust?

pgk
06-20-2008 08:50 PM
 
 
AceBird
Elite Veteran
Location: Utica, NY USA

Oh come on PGk, I know you have been reading all the posts. Ask the a$$man he doesn't make mistakes and he has a perfect record with all the newbies. No one will ever burn up an engine again now that we got the a$$man. How could you be confused?

I am surprised that no one has told you. The temperature that is a warning is the one you recorded just before the engine smokes. Right that down so you will know the next time.

Ace
What could be more fun?
06-21-2008 12:14 AM
 
 
pgkevet
Senior Heliman
Location: surrey UK

Quote 
Oh come on PGk, I know you have been reading all the posts. Ask the a$$man he doesn't make mistakes and he has a perfect record with all the newbies. No one will ever burn up an engine again now that we got the a$$man. How could you be confused?

I am surprised that no one has told you. The temperature that is a warning is the one you recorded just before the engine smokes. Right that down so you will know the next time.

And some objective and useful data now you got that out? Or is your contribution going to remain this helpful?

Obiously not just my engine that burbles pointlessly...

pgk
06-21-2008 12:28 AM
 
 
xcellgasman101
Elite Veteran
Location: WOODWARD, OKLA....

Quote 
(2nd fin by exhaust?)
Exhaust side will allways be hotter,, I check the carb side, third fin from the base,, Just me and How I do it,,
Quote 
What sort of temperature is a warning?

Anything above 290 to 300 Your hot, and LEAN



Quote 
I need a baseline temp to go from.. so gentle hover how long to get a meaningful measurement?

Measureing where I do,, 190 to 250 F. about a tank and you should see a color,

From what you have posted before, your good on your L needle, but you were having trouble with the H needle, if the engine is stumbling, or burbleing,, IT's rich, you will need to lean the H needle,,

Do this,, Hover your heli, Listen to it, is it smooth, you should hear a burble every 10 to 15 seconds.. if so then your ready.. if not, adjust the L needle till you do..
Now, from a hover,, do a small climb out, at full throttle,, just a few seconds,, is it stumbleing,, or burbleing,, IT's rich, lean the H needle only,, You should be able to go full throttle and let off come back down to hove height, and give full throttle with and stumbleing, or burbleing, I'll bet your rich on the H needle,, Let me know how you come out,, XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com
06-21-2008 12:30 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
pgkevet
Senior Heliman
Location: surrey UK

Quote 
Measureing where I do,, 190 to 250 F. about a tank and you should see a color,

Can I transate this to about 5mins to temperatur and a tank to plug colour? 1/3rd tankfulls and cool for running in?

If I sound prissy ignore.. I'm tying to get this right..

And supposed to occasional burble in the hover? But not flying steady circuits? Burble more likely to be rich? Is it going to be rich while I'm heavy on oil? Currently has been 25:1.. limited oil options here so was following zenoah manual advice but planned to go 30:1 after 1st (US) gallon then synthetic after 2nd?

pgk
06-21-2008 12:43 AM
 
 
xcellgasman101
Elite Veteran
Location: WOODWARD, OKLA....

Also the H needle is less sensitive than the L needle, you might have to move it a couple of times,,(H needle) do it in small increments.. I'm just trying to let you know you have to move it more, than the L needle to see a change,, XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com
06-21-2008 12:45 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
pgkevet
Senior Heliman
Location: surrey UK

Quote 
Also the H needle is less sensitive than the L needle, you might have to move it a couple of times,,(H needle) do it in small increments.. I'm just trying to let you know you have to move it more, than the L needle to see a change,,

Haven't touched either at all yet... so nothing to go by..but understand the amounts..

1am here... see what the weather and morning brings..

pgk
06-21-2008 12:50 AM
 
 
xcellgasman101
Elite Veteran
Location: WOODWARD, OKLA....

Quote 
Can I transate this to about 5mins to temperatur and a tank to plug colour? 1/3rd tankfulls and cool for running in?

Probley, it might take a little longer,,...

Quote 
If I sound prissy ignore.. I'm tying to get this right..

No problem,, I want you to get it right too..


Quote 
And supposed to occasional burble in the hover? But not flying steady circuits? Burble more likely to be rich? Is it going to be rich while I'm heavy on oil? Currently has been 25:1.. limited oil options here so was following zenoah manual advice but planned to go 30:1 after 1st (US) gallon then synthetic after 2nd?

More oil only translates to a leaner needle,, 25:1 is alot, and you run the risk of carboning up the ring,, I just help a guy that did that very thing,, He has now cleaned the ring out and it is flying allot better..

Getting the L needle set first for smooth idle and smooth transition helps get things going your way,, You have to listen to the engine, and get a burble ever 10 to 15 seconds, if it's more often, then your still rich on the L needle,, then just do what I said to set your H needle, keep adjusting it till there is no stumbleing, or burbleing,, and your done,, XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com
06-21-2008 12:55 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
pgkevet
Senior Heliman
Location: surrey UK

..early drizzle..finally got to the field 11.30 and yet another preflight..and found a minor problem but (typically) didn't have the stuff to sort it (everything but:mad... local regs for IC weekends allow flying to 1pm only.. Try again am.

..at lesst I found the problem on the ground

pgk
06-21-2008 04:44 PM
 
 
xcellgasman101
Elite Veteran
Location: WOODWARD, OKLA....

Murphy's law,,,

Quote 
..at lesst I found the problem on the ground

Congrats,, you must have a good preflight check list!!! XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com
06-21-2008 05:04 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
pgkevet
Senior Heliman
Location: surrey UK

Quote 
Congrats,, you must have a good preflight check list!!!


...now I admit I found it after I fired him up

pgk
06-21-2008 05:11 PM
 
 
xcellgasman101
Elite Veteran
Location: WOODWARD, OKLA....

Hey,, if it didn't leave the ground,, then I call it Preflight!!!! XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com
06-21-2008 05:36 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
pgkevet
Senior Heliman
Location: surrey UK

It's been a week since I've flown. I'd developed a serious tick on one side of the face and constant twitching thumbs that caused women to run screaming.

Forcast was 15 gusting to 35mph.. and I reckon was near right and all gusts. I'm not that good so it was a cautious morning .. really just to burn some 2-stroke. No-one else at the field although an aged plank guy who's not that quick did turn up just for a walk....


....Eventually he got the hang of the tach....


I still haven't touched the needles on this and this was first flights since I pranged it. Got it adjusted for about 1700rpm light on skids and if old guy' was right then 1790 in the hover (5deg pitch and 35% throttle).. so close enough to play with until I find a better pitcrew.

I really couldn't decide whether it was doing some 4-stroking or not so left things alone. It's still running in anyway..almost 3L through it so far by the end of the day. Another litre and I'll go synthetic.

The plug colour is a lovely caramel.. the colour of the toffee in a Mars Bar (but most of you won't have had the pleasure of one of them??)

I flew some circuits.. about as much as I was going to try in the wind. No burbling this time. There was a little tail wag at times also noticed that starboard sideways flight solid but port side (into wind) it tended to break into feathervaning. I'll have to have another look at the 611 but travel on the picth slider is right. Higher rpm needed?

A tank and a half and the flight pack was running low..obviously going to have to go Jewel soon.

Engine temps..I don't udnerstand this (or very much about helis anyways)..read 43C 2 fins from the carb and 38C 2 fins from the exhaust port. That seems the wrong way round and not as hot as most of you report??

The tank was run dry on the ground with varying throttle.. a noticeable increase in rpm on the dregs before it died.. and a nicer sound.

Does all that imply i'm close on the defaults but possible a smidgen rich on both needles?

I'm inclined to leave things until I move to synthetic and then tweak about.. preferably with more reliable assistance.

I also managed the idiot's thing of being distracted by Grandpa and stupidly forgetting to turn the flight pack on after a cool-down before firing it up. It was just idling and I was able to reach over to the head button and stop the rotors just like that.. I'm admitting to this (bet you've all done it) mainly because to me that means the clutch and bell must be pretty close aligned - but not the best way of testing it.

I've just found the 4200mah flight pack only took 2200 on recharge.. so I need another on-board charge indicator - could have flown more

pgk
06-25-2008 01:47 PM
 
 
Fixit
Key Veteran
Location: UK

Lucky you, still too windy this end of the country.

The plug sounds good for an engine that’s run in but I would run it a bit richer on a new engine, the temp readings do sound low, what temp gauge you are using?
I used the inferred type first but they didn’t give a true reading so now I use the e-station Heli Master temp gauge.
Sounds like youve talked yourself into the Jewel
06-25-2008 02:20 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
xcellgasman101
Elite Veteran
Location: WOODWARD, OKLA....

Quote 
)..read 43C 2 fins from the carb and 38C 2 fins from the exhaust port.
Thats 109.4, and 100.4F,, Thats really low,, What was the outside temp that day???

Quote 
Does all that imply i'm close on the defaults but possible a smidgen rich on both needles?

I would say yes...


Quote 
The plug colour is a lovely caramel.. the colour of the toffee in a Mars Bar (but most of you won't have had the pleasure of one of them??)

That one of my favs....

What oil are you useing to break in??? From your temps, your rich, but from your discription of the plug, your just about right,,,????

Are the temps taken right after landing?? or are you letting it cool down?? XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com
06-25-2008 03:58 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
pgkevet
Senior Heliman
Location: surrey UK

Quote 
Lucky you, still too windy this end of the country.

...you can only be 2 or 3 mph worse?.. and can probably fly

Quote 
The plug sounds good for an engine that’s run in but I would run it a bit richer on a new engine, the temp readings do sound low, what temp gauge you are using?

infrared laser jobby.. seems to be pretty accurate when playing about with it around the house - people, kettles and the like..
[url=http://www.onsitetools.com/measuring/temperature/temperature-measuring/detail/IR350/]

Quote 
used the inferred type first but they didn’t give a true reading so now I use the e-station Heli Master temp gauge.
Sounds like youve talked yourself into the Jewel

Raja sending evil spirits to suck my lipos dry!

pgk
06-25-2008 04:04 PM
 
 
pgkevet
Senior Heliman
Location: surrey UK

Quote 
That one of my favs....

..and Mick Jagger..

Quote 
What oil are you useing to break in??? From your temps, your rich, but from your discription of the plug, your just about right,,,????

Castrol TT (mineral as opposed to TTS). current mix is 27:1 (was 25:1 but I added some 30:1 into my can because you all seemed to think 25:1 was too strong.. 1L 30:1 added to 2L 25:1)

Quote 
Are the temps taken right after landing?? or are you letting it cool down??

As immediately on landing as it takes to shut down, grab gun and aim from 2 foot away....no idling after landing to cool it. 10 mins of flying

pgk
06-25-2008 04:11 PM
 
 
xcellgasman101
Elite Veteran
Location: WOODWARD, OKLA....

Quote 
and Mick Jagger..
Him too!!!!


Quote 
grab gun and aim from 2 foot away....

I get within a few inches.... The farther away you are the lower the temp will be?? Or atleast that is how my Raytec it,, You might try getting closer to the head when taken the temps... XGM/VGM

John Crotts
www.soonerhelicamproductions.com
06-25-2008 04:15 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
pgkevet
Senior Heliman
Location: surrey UK

Quote 
I get within a few inches.... The farther away you are the lower the temp will be?? Or atleast that is how my Raytec it,, You might try getting closer to the head when taken the temps

Dunno, may have been closer. laser spot looked quite small. Did assorted measurements during morning and never got into the 50C's.. so now wondering about gun..will have to find a way to cross-check it <sigh>

pgk
06-25-2008 04:25 PM
 
 
lperagallo
Senior Heliman
Location: Westfield, Indiana, USA

pgkevet,

Headspeed of 1,790 seems a bit high to be hovering around in for a Gasser. I'd be more around 1,550 in normal and maybe up to 1,750 in Idle 2. What gear ratio you running? Have you computed your engine RPM? Might be high for break in.

Just my opinion....

Lou

Bergen Intrepid EB, G-26, 720mm; Bergen Turbine, Wren MW54; Raptor 50V2, OS50-Hyper
06-25-2008 07:47 PM
 
 
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