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JR Heli Vibe - Airskipper - Sylphide - Venture > Vigor stock head+3D=BOOM STRIKE? Call for help
 
 
MoneyPitVictim
Veteran
Location: Dayton, Ohio

I have now flown 2 Vigor 90s from friends. What A smooth machine. Very agile too once you crank the head speed and the controls.

Both had the stock head, the second had stiffer dampeners but you can still move those grips around with no effort at all. From looking at the drawings everything is OK.

I have always been carefull flying them but in reality, scare to death of the soft head.

Today merlin3, the owner, calls me to say "you missed it". It chopped the tail off in the air doing sideways tic tocs. RPM=1850, CY 710 blades

The guy loves the way it flies BUT this thing had more failures (tail case, crown gears, brand new ball links breaking off) on its own that I care to hear about.

I would pay him to get rid off it but that's not happening. So I got to help him fix it.

We need help to get the right setup so this won't happen again.
So where do we go from here? Vibe head? What dampenners?

TIA

Santiago
$pit
06-20-2008 02:07 AM
 
 
dhc8guru
Senior Heliman
Location: Texas

Well, I doubt the soft dampeners are the single problem to a boom strike. Loose mainblades are a bigger cause...assuming they have been flying long enough to know 3D, I am sure they know how to set proper mainblade tension.
I would get rid of the 710mm blades and goto 700mm blades this will make a big difference and also try reducing the aft cyclic travel.
Do a static check of how close the blades run to the boom at full neg and pos pitch with full aft cyclic. I would think three(?) inches of distance between the boom and blade tips would be adequate for any blade/head flex under full load.

The strike happened in a sideways tic-toc? I am not sure how you would boom strike with the head flexing side to side...maybe a standard tic-toc was the maneuver he was performing when it happened or maybe the entry or exit for a sideways tic-toc?
06-20-2008 05:21 PM
 
 
MoneyPitVictim
Veteran
Location: Dayton, Ohio

Blades grips (lead-lag) where tight as heck. Yes it was a sideways, tic-toc. It has the revolution dampeners with cups.
http://www.heliproz.com/rvodampers.html

This WAS NOT the case of back stick plus negative pitch. Please understand I really don't want to over analyze this. My XCell and my Freya have way stiffer heads. This Vigor CS is way too soft in comparison even with the upgrades.

Found a post on people gluing the dampernners in. Is this a standard procedure? Does anyone knows what Curtis did when he flew a Vigor CS?

Thanks for your time

Santiago
06-20-2008 07:48 PM
 
 
merlin3
Senior Heliman
Location: ohio

sorry for just now posting, santiago has everything right. i always tighten the main blades before i fly so that they are very tight. i dont see a reason why it would matter if the blades were 710 or 700 they didnt hit the tail blades just the boom and cut it clean off. it also caused my tail to pretty much disentigrate(spelling?). the heli was flying great and i had been doing 4 point tic tocs and such before but this was in quick sideways tic tocs.

Justin
06-20-2008 08:59 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
inkspot1967
rrProfessor
Location: cranston ri.

curtis would use all hard dampners and he used either expoxy or jb weld on them....not sure which he used but i know he glued his dampners in for sure he even does it on his vibe90's

Vibe50 VBar flybarless 12X Radix ATGv3
Next-D Rave
WENZEL CANOPYS
Flybars are for Pussies.
06-21-2008 12:18 AM
 
 
MoneyPitVictim
Veteran
Location: Dayton, Ohio

Quote 
curtis would use all hard dampners and he used either expoxy or jb weld on them.

Wholy barnyard beast! jb weld. Does he just put a little epoxy instead of grease or does he packs the O-rings in epoxy to neglect any movement?
06-21-2008 05:07 AM
 
 
inkspot1967
rrProfessor
Location: cranston ri.

im not sure send Buzzin Brian a pm he could tell you more how curtis does it, i believe its epoxy not jb weld

Vibe50 VBar flybarless 12X Radix ATGv3
Next-D Rave
WENZEL CANOPYS
Flybars are for Pussies.
06-21-2008 05:17 AM
 
 
Buzzin Brian
Elite Veteran
Location: College Station, Texas

We use Gel epoxy. The Gel part is important because the gels do not get completely hard. They glue really well, but stay a little rubbery for lack of a better term. You can get the gel epoxy I believe at most home improvement stores like Hope Depot and Lowes. The stuff we use it made by Pacers and is in a tan colored tube with green plungers that squeeze it out. Of course it is 2 part epoxy, but is in a syringe looking dispenser.

That covers the glue, now how we do it. First off I would strongly suggest locating a Scott Grey aluminum head conversion kit if you can, if not I would use a Vibe 90 head block over the Vigor CS head block. Curtis would suggest the same thing. That aside, we clean everything really well with alcohol (the head block cups and the O rings) to make sure the glue will stick well. Next you mix up your epoxy. Place 2 of the O rings between your fingers with the outside surface facing out. Meaning the pads of your fingers will be in the holes of the O rings. Next cover the outside of the O ring surface completely with the Epoxy. Now push them into the head block and wipe the excess off with a paper towel and alcohol. Be sure to swab inside the O rings as well to take off any excess that may have gotten on the inside surface. Repeat this step on the other side. When the O rings are completely pressed in place and the excess epoxy has been cleaned away you are done. Now let the epoxy cure over night and reassemble the head. The O rings will now no longer move in the head, and will last MUCH longer.

Oh, and Inkspot was correct about the O rings. We use only the hard O rings (90 durometer) in the head on the Vibe and or Vigor heads for hard 3D purposes.

Hope this helps some, If not feel free to contact me. I will do what I can to help.


Brian

Build it, fly it, crash it. Repeat as often as needed.
06-22-2008 01:08 AM
 
 
inkspot1967
rrProfessor
Location: cranston ri.

see i told you brian would know.....lol

Vibe50 VBar flybarless 12X Radix ATGv3
Next-D Rave
WENZEL CANOPYS
Flybars are for Pussies.
06-22-2008 01:17 AM
 
 
merlin3
Senior Heliman
Location: ohio

thanks brian for your help. Now I just need to track down a metal head block. Any opinion on which is better, the scott gray one or vibe one? And does curtis use the stock hard dampners?

Justin
06-22-2008 01:40 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
inkspot1967
rrProfessor
Location: cranston ri.

yes he uses the stock hard dampners

Vibe50 VBar flybarless 12X Radix ATGv3
Next-D Rave
WENZEL CANOPYS
Flybars are for Pussies.
06-22-2008 01:43 AM
 
 
Buzzin Brian
Elite Veteran
Location: College Station, Texas

Ink is correct again, we use the stock hard O rings from the kit. And I preffer the Vibe 90 head block over the Scott Grey head conversion. But would use either over the Vigor CS head block. The Vibe 90 head block has points that are machined out to help eliminate binding that neither a Grey conversion or the stock CS head will have. The Vibe 90 head block is MUCH nicer IMPO.

Build it, fly it, crash it. Repeat as often as needed.
06-22-2008 06:44 AM
 
 
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JR Heli Vibe - Airskipper - Sylphide - Venture > Vigor stock head+3D=BOOM STRIKE? Call for help
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