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Radio - Futaba FASST > Time for futaba to get its thing together?

DS 8717
rrProfessor
Location: Here wishing i was somewhere else

But you can actually fly with a 12X right now.I thought Futaba had 15 years 2.4 experience.

06-20-2008 07:17 PM

tchavei
rrProfessor
Location: Portugal

You can also fly with a 14mz or any other FASST capable radio right now too. I actually like FASST better than Spektrum however thats not the point. The point is that JR is comming up with cool new stuff while futaba takes ages to present something feasable. I would be happy enough with a built-in regulator in their receiver as I'm not thinking in opening hand of my multigov pro.

Tony

--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

06-20-2008 07:24 PM

HOMEPAGE

Henrik Engert
Key Veteran
Location: Cedar Park, TX

Quote
now back to the radios... now that you mention it... why a 10C, 12FG, 12X anyway?

To give us an option depending how much money we want to spend (Just my thought).

I don't understand what the big deal is, really. I still run my NiCD's and NiMH batteries without issues, and if it isn't broken don't fix it.

For me, the GV-1 is still the best governor. So I am a happy camper with my 12Z 2.4Ghz system

If you are so unhappy, then either you have to wait for them to come up with something new, or switch brand.

Hirobo XSpec EVO
Futaba 12Z FASST

06-20-2008 07:54 PM

tchavei
rrProfessor
Location: Portugal

Well actually I opened a thread on another section inquiring about the 12x 14mz differences.

However, like I said before, I do like the programming features of my 14mz, I do like the FASST system better... its the rest that is causing this...

About the GV-1... best governor huh?

Tony

--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

06-20-2008 09:56 PM

HOMEPAGE

Henrik Engert
Key Veteran
Location: Cedar Park, TX

Quote
About the GV-1... best governor huh?

It all depends on how you fly. I fly F3C, and for me, a mortal, it does just what it is supposed to do.

Hirobo XSpec EVO
Futaba 12Z FASST

06-21-2008 01:55 AM

Dr.Ben
Elite Veteran
Location: Richmond, VA, USA

I clearly have my Futaba bias, but I will acknowledge the liabilities of a GV-1. Out of the box, it's still one of the easiest units for anyone to set up with any model. It's quite tolerant of engine tuning as well. In hover, which some of us still do, it's quite superb. Smooth to engage and seemlessly integrated to Futaba transmitters. In the air, I leave it off for any rolling maneuver. I can easily detect the lag, and it will help corkscrew a precision roll versus a well tweaked throttle curve (yes, I can actually set one of those things up). The one good thing about Futaba still having to release their offering is that they have the benefit of all the other units that are out there to see what works and what sucks. I'll bet the farm their release will be killer.

RE the earlier comment made about being able to fly a 12X now, it took Futaba a bit longer than Spectrum to release thier SS technology because it takes longer to design a product from the ground up with custom electronics (versus preexisting off the shelf hardware) for model RC which truly hops across all channels with a 14 channel receiver which doesn't have a bunch of model cluttering satellite units hooked to it.

Ben Minor

06-21-2008 03:21 AM

Ace Dude
Elite Veteran
Location: USA

They both have their strengths and weaknesses. Spektrum/JR has certainly changed the marketplace and has been great at bringing innovative products to the marketplace. Can you imagine what things would be like if Spektrum didn't come out with 2.4GHz?

As for strengths and weaknesses, I like the flash upgrade feature the high-end Futaba radios have which I believe even the 12X does not have. I also like the memory card options on the Futaba radios.

On the flip side, all those satellite receivers JR/Spektrum have doesn't look very appealing to me. I want less wiring, note more.

So, those are just two examples and there are many more.

The bottom line is to get out and fly. Either radio system will work no matter which one you own there will always be some little feature(s) better or worse than the other brand radio.

06-21-2008 03:57 AM

reckless loony
Senior Heliman
Location: MIA

Quote
I mean, it never bothered me much that Futaba stuff was always priced twice as high as JR (especially receivers) but now seeing "light" and compact solutions from the competition and where is Futaba? Sleeping again.

Twice the price? Where are you getting this from?

Spektrum did have for a short time a two for one deal on Rx’s, which has expired. You can also get a Futaba R6014FS Rx for under $200.

These prices are all from the same online retailer so mark ups should be the same for all products. These prices are everyday prices no discounting.

JR
R921 9 channel Rx $170. $18.89 per channel

Spektrum
AR9000 9 channel Rx $170. $18.89 per channel
AR7000 7 channel Rx $100. $14.29 per channel

Futaba
R6014FS 14 channel Rx $213. $15.21 per channel
R608FS 8 channel Rx $140. $17.50 per channel
R617FS 7 channel Rx $100. $14.29 per channel

Quote
FASST receiver with an integrated Multigov Pro and a regulator... Oo yes I take at least 4 of them

I wouldn’t want it. The trouble with multifunction electronics is if say the governor was to fail then you have to ditch the whole thing. This is what happens with the 4 in 1’s on small electric heli’s when the gyro fails then the whole 4 in 1 needs to be tossed. Multifunction electronics are also more expensive so you are looking at more $$$ being ditched when a part of the device fails.

Look at the Spektrum AR7100R 7 channel Rx, which sells for $220 it, has 2A BEC and rev limiter built in.

The BEC being 2A is rather useless for a heli it is just enough for a Trex 450 that doesn’t use digital servos.

Looking at individual costs

Spektrum AR7000 $100
Throttle Jockey Rev max limiter $80
Align 6A BEC $17.09

Total price $197.09

If the AR7100R built in rev limiter should fail then that’s $220 you’re up for but with individual electronics you would only be up for $80.

Quote
Spektrum/JR has certainly changed the marketplace and has been great at bringing innovative products to the marketplace. Can you imagine what things would be like if Spektrum didn't come out with 2.4GHz?

Futaba would have come out with 2.4Ghz for RC anyway they were using 2.4Ghz for Industrial RC control long before Spektrum/JR. They have 2.4Ghz RC patents going back to mid 1990’s. Futaba Corporation is much larger than JR.

http://www.futaba.com/products/irc/...ction/index.asp

http://www.lormfg.com/rrcs.php

I have actually gone from JR to a Futaba radio simply because of the better versatility and features that Futaba has to over.

In the below link I state why I chose the 10C over the 9303/DSX9.

http://www.archeli.com.au/cobra/showthread.php?t=117167

06-21-2008 06:45 AM

Ace Dude
Elite Veteran
Location: USA

Quote
Futaba would have come out with 2.4Ghz for RC anyway they were using 2.4Ghz for Industrial RC control long before Spektrum/JR.

Just because they were using it for industrial applications doesn't mean they were planning on applying that technology to the RC hobby industry. In fact, it wasn't until quite some time after the first Spektrum radio came out that Futaba even had a 2.4GHz offering.

One can only imagine the pricing if Futaba had actually hit the market first. The 14MZ brought us $339 receivers and now the equivalent 2.4Ghz offering is under $200. While the electronic components are completely different, there's no doubt that market pressures are playing a role in Futaba's pricing.

Quote
I wouldn’t want it. The trouble with multifunction electronics is if say the governor was to fail then you have to ditch the whole thing.

There may be a drawback, but Horizon Hobby is also know for having the best service in the industry as well.

06-21-2008 12:03 PM

Kinger
Elite Veteran
Location: Columbus, OH

Everything goes in cycles in this hobby. Futaba has the hot radio and gear and then JR has the hot radio and gear. OS has the hot motor and then YS has the hot motor. Hatori has the best muffler and then CY has the best muffler. On and on it goes.

Wait around and things will change. Wait around even longer and things will change again

The 8V feature of the Spektrum AR7100R would be nice, but unless you are doing crack moves (which I can't stand) I don't see the huge deal. It's not like the RevMax is a huge unit in and of itself and if you don't like using it then the AR7100R isn't that beneficial anyway.

06-21-2008 02:10 PM

4cyclic
Senior Heliman
Location: Montreal, Can.

Futaba a bigger company than JR ? How can that be an advantage ?

That's probably why JR was taking the lead with 2.4 and now the 7100R rx. Bigger is often a problem when you need to react quickly to market forces. Futaba needs a Paul Beard !!

As already said, if it wasn't for Spektrum coming out with 2.4, how long would Futaba have taken to do it themselves. Look at the time they're taking to come out with an integrated 2.4 14z.

More competition is what we should hope for.

Fly non-stop till your brain fizzles !

06-21-2008 02:52 PM

Ace Dude
Elite Veteran
Location: USA

Quote
Futaba a bigger company than JR ? How can that be an advantage ?

One advantage is that bigger companies usually have more $$$ for research and development.

06-21-2008 03:07 PM

Dr.Ben
Elite Veteran
Location: Richmond, VA, USA

Trust me.

Futaba being larger is real advantage for R&D dollars.

It cost over 2 million R&D dollars to bring the 14 MZ to market. I shudder to think what Futaba has invested over the past two years to bring FAAST to market. JR's implementation of Spectrum's technology was done for more reasons than because they thought it worked good. If Paul weren't doing their R&D work, you JR fans might still be waiting for a new radio.

Ben Minor

06-22-2008 12:53 AM

Ace Dude
Elite Veteran
Location: USA

If it wasn't for Paul we would all be dreaming about the days when pins and frequency control would be a thing of the past.

06-22-2008 04:47 AM

carcrasher
Key Veteran
Location: east coast

I like my 14mz. I have a dx7 for a heli and one plank and it was confusing as hell trying to get the gyro to work. Even more confusing trying to get my rev-limiter to work(and I still don't have it working 100%). I've always had Futaba and I guess I'm just used to their set-up and menus. I do like how Jr's SS is built into the radio though. Futaba still has JR beat in the gyro dept.

06-23-2008 02:37 AM

jbiter
Veteran
Location: Orlando, FL

My LHS recently showed me one of the new 7100 receivers. I couldn't help but notice the lack of a heat sink. All of the high end regulators I can think of come with huge heat sinks.

Anyone try the new 7100 yet? Any problems?

Jeff

06-23-2008 11:20 AM

tchavei
rrProfessor
Location: Portugal

Hum, I didn't though of that...

Tony

--------------------
"Perfection and patience usually walk side by side..."

06-23-2008 11:26 AM

HOMEPAGE

JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: City of California in the state of Maryland

> Again... DS8717... brushless, 0.06 sec, 12kg torque.

The 8717 is not brushless. Coreless, yes, brushless, no.

> The BEC being 2A is rather useless for a heli it is just enough for
> a Trex 450 that doesn’t use digital servos.

The regulator is only for the tail and throttle servo if desired. All other channels are supplied with what's coming in through the failsafe switch.

> of the high end regulators I can think of come with huge heat sinks.

Because the "high end regulators" are for the whole electronics system, not just the tail (and throttle if desired).

- John

Protos -- Logo 10

06-23-2008 01:45 PM

helirulz
Senior Heliman
Location: Singapore

just curious though....brushless servos or not...does it even matter?

What kind of performance gain does one see when switching from brushed to brushless servos?

06-23-2008 03:41 PM

JKos
Elite Veteran
Location: City of California in the state of Maryland

> What kind of performance gain does one see when switching from
> brushed to brushless servos?

Theory being that a brushless servo motor will last longer and be more vibration resistant as there are no brushes to wear out or vibrate around. A brushless motor should also be more efficient, but I doubt that we will notice any useful result of that.

- John

Protos -- Logo 10

06-23-2008 03:55 PM

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Radio - Futaba FASST > Time for futaba to get its thing together?

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