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Beginners Corner > Tail/Gyro setup questions...
 
 
wpmcnamara
New Heliman
Location: The Colony, TX USA

Ok, let me preface this by saying that I have been reading on this for the past week. Let me also say that the signal to noise ratio on this topic is very low. I need suggestions from the pros, beyond "it's a piece of junk, upgrade".

I have a Blade 400 with the stock G110 gyro (remember, no upgrade suggestions). I HAVE upgraded the tail servo to a DSP75 and switched the gyro into digital mode. Tail linkage is on the middle hole on the servo arm. Everything else is stock.

In "normal" mode, the tail is very well setup in rate mode. It will hover hands off the left stick for about 20-30 seconds in rate mode with no trims. Rate mode gain is about 39% (30.5% remote gain setting on the DX6i). In heading hold mode, I've got no tail wag. HH gain is about 34% (67% remote gain on the DX6i). Based on what I have read, if you have a good setup in rate mode (no drift/no trim), heading hold should be spot on or pretty close

Now for the problem. I have to put about 5 click of right trim on the rudder to keep the nose straight in HH mode. If I trim out the drift, then the nose holds straight and doesn't drift. From what I have read, this translates to the gyro having a different idea of what center on the rudder channel is than what the transmitter is sending. Further strengthening this thought is the fact that is I power up the system and don't move the heli at all, switch to rate mode to center the servo, then switch back to HH, the tail pitch slowly changes back to pretty much zero pitch. Unlike what others have said, it doesn't continue to change (the key here being that heli hasn't moved at all since the gyro initialized). This is the behavior I would expect, except that in HH mode it should drift to the same center point as in rate mode.

Again, based on reading, if the gyro is interpreting center rudder as something off center then you need to re-initialize what the gyro thinks is center. This is where things start to get fuzzy. Documentation on the G110 is pretty well non-existent. I have found reference to the gyro re-initializing it's center point during rebinding the transmitter. Tried that with unknown results. When the XCVR is powered up in binding mode, the LED on the gyro flashes. The XCVR binds and arms and all the head servos respond as expected. The tail servo is still locked out though since the gyro hasn't initialized. If I power down and up, the gyro inits normally, but it doesn't seem to have changed behavior at all.

I've tried to include all the information I could think of, but here is one little more piece. If I switch to idle up, I have to give serious right rudder in both RM and HH modes (I haven't figured out how much trim it would take yet), but more in HH mode. I would have expected that in rate mode, what works in normal should work in idle up.

So, the big question: what am I missing? Secondly, does anyone have decent information on the G110 about how to reset center, powering up in rate vs HH, what the LED blinkies mean, etc?

***EDIT***
Here is the G110 Manual. I haven't read it fully yet.
06-11-2008 03:19 AM
 
 
wpmcnamara
New Heliman
Location: The Colony, TX USA

Ok, so I read through the G110 manual. There is no mention of resetting the center point on gyro. From what the manual says, set the tail up for no drift with zero trim in rate mode, then switch over to HH mode. With the heli sitting stable, add/remove subtrim until you get minimal servo creep at mid stick. For me that worked out to be about 9 right on the subtrim. With that setting, I can switch from rate to heading and back and forth and the tail doesn't seem to move at all. It's dark now so I can't try and see how it works in flight.
06-11-2008 03:49 AM
 
 
Pistol_Pete
Elite Veteran
Location: Tampa Bay non-Buccaneer

IF you have to trim during HH then your set up is mechanically wrong.

Easily done by moving tail servo.

You should be able to switch between HH and rate without any noticeable differences in tail behaviour.

Quote 
I need suggestions from the pros, beyond "it's a piece of junk, upgrade".

take them for what they are worth as all opinions are free.

Best of luck!

<><>...the lunatic is in my head...<><>
06-11-2008 01:00 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
fenderstrat
Elite Veteran
Location: Aston,Pa

I have a G90 gyro and its very similar to the 110...these gyro's are different than the futaba gyro's that most people are used to...you WILL need some trim or subtrim in HH to get a stable hover..its just the way it is.....according to your second post..you have read and are doing things right now,set it up in rate,switch to HH,dial out any "creep"in the servo,adjust the gain to suit,and go fly

Quote 
Ok, so I read through the G110 manual

when all else fails..read the manual

PerformancePlusRC field rep
TT Mini Titan
HBK2
Futaba FASST
06-11-2008 02:18 PM
 
 
wpmcnamara
New Heliman
Location: The Colony, TX USA

Quote 
when all else fails..read the manual


Yup, of course, in this case, finding the manual was the harder part. It seems to be getting easier and easier to find now though. Still don't know what the blinking LED after binding means, but after reading through the manual, I think I've got it right -- at least for standard flight mode.
06-11-2008 02:48 PM
 
 
nivlek
Elite Veteran
Location: Norfolk England

Try using sub trim in HH , then adjust the linkage length for correct trim in rate mode .

At the end of the day , it gets dark .
06-11-2008 03:36 PM
 
 
wpmcnamara
New Heliman
Location: The Colony, TX USA

Quote 
IF you have to trim during HH then your set up is mechanically wrong.

Well, Pistol_Pete was right about the wrong geometry, just not the geometry to which he was referring. Another lesson was re-learned today-- even if you think everything is correct, check it again.

Some time ago I had to rebuild the head after a crash. I put everything back together, leveled the swash, and set the pitch on the blades. Later, when I went to fly, I found I had put the blade grips on backwards, so I took took out the blade grips and reversed them. I did not however reset the pitch on the blades.

Today, I happened to check the pitch after putting a set of carbon fiber blades on and found that it went from about -5 to +16 in idle up and about -2 to +16 in normal mode. This explains the problem I was having switching to idle up and rudder trim being wildly off. In normal mode, hover was happening just about mid stick at about 55% power so the tail rotor was turning pretty slow and torque was pretty low. Switching to idle up put power at a minimum of 80%, way increasing the torque and rotor speed so that the trim that worked in normal mode was way off.

So, pitch problems have been corrected and they now go -11 to +11 at 100% servo travel. I'm having to re-setup the tail, but things are looking way better.

*sigh* Looking at it now, I should have noticed the pitch problem long ago since the heli was light on the skids well below mid stick, but oh well. We'll see how things go once the tail has been re setup.
06-12-2008 02:01 AM
 
 
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Beginners Corner > Tail/Gyro setup questions...
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