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Midland Helicopters . HeliProz . ZoomsHobbies

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Aerial Photography and Video > PowerJazz program card issue
 
 
daytonabeach
Key Veteran
Location: Oslo, Norway

Got my new powerjazz and the progr card.

Everything seems okay in the programming part but the "start up" section, it skips directly from "cut of...." to "timing/rpm" when toggling trough the modes.

No lights in the leds on either sides in "start up" to choose between.
When attaching the rx battery all the leds lit, so i know every led works as the should.

Plugged the programcard in like this:
1. rx battery
2. ESC
3. power batteries

Any suggestions here?

Also like to hear what battery mode you chose for A123's?

Chris

Never argue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience...
06-10-2008 10:04 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
daytonabeach
Key Veteran
Location: Oslo, Norway

Ok, im on to something now...

When turning of the "RPM control" mode, then the "start up" mode leds lit.
Seems like i have to choose between one of them.
Whats the difference between "start up" and "RPM control" and what is the definition of smooth startup?

And why doesnt these things comes with instruction manuals?
Am i the only one not an engineer in this sport?

Never argue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience...
06-11-2008 09:06 PM
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Louisiana Helicam
Key Veteran
Location: West Monroe, LA

There's a really good writeup about this over at the Freak. I came across it a while back.

Formerly Viperhawk
www.louisianahelicam.com
06-11-2008 09:58 PM
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daytonabeach
Key Veteran
Location: Oslo, Norway

Hmm, did a search now, but couldnt find any...

Tell me if you find the url for it, thx

Never argue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience...
06-11-2008 10:27 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
daytonabeach
Key Veteran
Location: Oslo, Norway

Man, i almost had it with this sport, isnt there something at all that works like it suppose to?
Yes, i know rc stuff originally was toys to play with, but havent we come further than this?

Ive bought one of the so called best ESC you can get for helis. I payed 500$ for just that part.

1. Things often or almost never comes with an instruction manual.
2. Customer service often sucks!
3. and after spending a fortune in research on forums, calling customer support which promise they will get back to you the day after, but never do.
4. Yeah, theres always a natural explanation on how to get it work properly, but you have to be a rocket scientist to figure it out on your own, or at least you have to know that scientist, or the guy that have gone through all of the mess to get there himself.

Why do i have to spend hours in here to get answers an make a complete fool of my self cause i have to ask dumb obvious questions?

Why is it so? why do we pay fortune for products that dont even comes with a manual?
Everything else today does

Nough about that!

Ive finally found out that to set the throttle, youll have to program things in the program card, then connect and turn on the system as usual, raise the thr stick to full throttle for 1 sec, and done!

FINE, but when adjusting the throttle curve it comes on with totally different headspeed each time, even when lowering the THR curve.
Last time i was close to the desired HS, so i lowered the curve from 50% rate to 45%, but when spooling up, it went to at least 1700 compared to 1450 last time, why?

Do i have to repeat that "full throttle" part each time i want to go out flying?

So i guess theres a simple and obvious answer to this as well, and surely someone else knows why?

There are TOO many why's in this sport

Never argue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience...
06-12-2008 06:23 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
nooobs
Key Veteran
Location: Toronto, Canada

Chris

Quote 
Man, i almost had it with this sport, isnt there something at all that works like it suppose to?

That's what I keep asking myself.

As you know I just crashed my MJ2 for the fifth time this year. Yes I decided to give it one more try with the pinion alignment problem. This time I think it worked but before I could check it the heli decided to fly on its own. I had a radio lockout. So I can't really blame the heli this time. Maybe I can as I was having serious static problem around the receiver. So what do I do? Give up or try one more time?


Quote 
Why do i have to spend hours in here to get answers an make a complete fool of my self cause i have to ask dumb obvious questions?

A dumb question is the one that is not asked.

I'm assuming you finally got your tach? It's best to have someone else tach for you as you hover. You can teach anyone to use it. Some say you can tach just before lift off. That's not entirely accurate. Adjust your head speed according to the weight you'll be lifting.
06-12-2008 08:12 PM
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daytonabeach
Key Veteran
Location: Oslo, Norway

Yeah Ros!

Isnt it funny, despite all our effort to fight through the obstacles and all the time we spend on this, we still dont give up, i guess thats cause were not quitters

Dont know if im gonna cry or laugh sometimes, but i know deep down inside that there are some good reasons why stick to it, it could also be im a stubborn son of a gun

I guess you have to go through your own development in this business/sport, cause i dont belive there exist something called ready to fly, unless you pay less than 50 bucks

I agree, there are no such things as dumb questions, but sometimes i feel a bit embarrassed when i see "daytonabeach" greased all over the topic front page

But then again, if i dont ask i wont get answers

I will try the throttle setup once more, maybe it needs to be done from scratch each time i adjust the curve in my tx..

I mean, what could possibly go wrong?

But tell me dear Ros, how do you discover static around the rx? i mean, its nothing visible, right?

Chris

Never argue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience...
06-12-2008 08:46 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
fergus
Veteran
Location: Ireland

Here you go Chris:

http://www.helifreak.com/showthread...azz+programming

You need to get out of APM mode in order to set a governor % accurately in your radio throttle curves.

No more sparks when connecting packs It is a great ESC and once set up correctly you can forget about it. They are bulletproof. Can be tricky to setup as they are not designed for helis. That is why I suggested you wait for the HV Jive in one of your other threads. Stick with it though it will be worth it.

Regards

Fergus

Regards

Fergus
06-12-2008 09:43 PM
 
 
nooobs
Key Veteran
Location: Toronto, Canada

Quote 
how do you discover static around the rx? i mean, its nothing visible, right?

I place my hand around the gear and my hair stands up! LOL

...I use a non-contact voltage detector.
06-12-2008 09:45 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
daytonabeach
Key Veteran
Location: Oslo, Norway

Fergus, ya, that spark feature is cool

What do you mean by HV Jive?

Ros, do you got long hair? Bet you look funny, LOL

A non contact voltage detector... hmm, you should try the "Get rid of every possible problem automatically in just one click" instrument, i hear they're awesome, but it ll cost you a fortune

Okay, enough fun for now, bedtime, and new heavy researching again tomorrow morning, look so forward to get this thingz back in air..

Never argue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience...
06-12-2008 10:59 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
fergus
Veteran
Location: Ireland

Quote 
What do you mean by HV Jive?

I made reference to it here as an alternative to the PowerJazz:


http://www.runryder.com/helicopter/t435869p1/

It is the new ESC due out from Kontronik.

I PMed you the PowerJazz setup.

Regards

Fergus

Regards

Fergus
06-13-2008 12:05 AM
 
 
ehx
Senior Heliman
Location: Northern Minnesota

On RCGroups in the Kontronik forum MotorMike (Kontronik employee) has just given setup info for the PowerJazz.

Yep. The manuals aren't very clear. Neither are the Schulze's for that matter. This hobby takes time to become good at it. Anything worth doing does. People like Nooobs have progressed much faster than I did over a decade ago, but I wonder if you can really get things down well without spending at least a couple years actually flying?

The PowerJazz IS designed for a heli. It's just the default mode is for a plane. You have to program it right. What motor and batteries are you using? Are you using the governor mode? Is this a Maxi Joker? What pinion? Let us know exactly how you programmed the ESC last and we should be able to determine what the problem may be.

It's probably not the problem, but you should know that the ESC sets its headspeed after checking the battery voltage. If you use depleted batteries the headspeed the ESC picks will be lower than fully charged batteries. Even with (theoretically) fully charged batteries I have seen ~150 rpm headspeed differences.
06-13-2008 04:18 AM
 
 
daytonabeach
Key Veteran
Location: Oslo, Norway

Hi Fergus!

thx for all the tips so far, will try to test it now, just have to make a male to male contact for the THR setup.
You know anything of what might be better on the Jive version compared to the PJ for our use?
Do you think it could be worth changing again when that is out?

ehx!

I guess a newly charged power battery would be preferable during the setup process then...
Does the HS differences turn both up and down in speed, or just one way?
HS doesnt change during a flight as the pack is emptying?

I assume you shouldnt turn of the system if you have to land and check something halfway, or doesnt it matter?
I was thinking it might discover the half empty battery as a "fully charged" one then?
If for some reason i have to disconnect the system, how do you handle that?

I also noticed that the info MotorMike gave on how to connect the PJ and the progr card differed from another users experience "wyvern"

No wonder you get confused when the supplier itself doesnt know how to do it the right way

Never argue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience...
06-13-2008 11:13 AM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
fergus
Veteran
Location: Ireland

As I understand it the powerjazz was designed for large electric powerboats Not that it matters.

It is hoped the Jive will be lighter than the powerjazz with a better governor and a bit easier to setup. I doubt anyone with a powerjazz will switch unless they need to save weight. Many with the Jazz 55-10-32 may switch though for the higher amp rating.

ehx is right about the rpm differences on the PJ of as much as 150rpm depending on pack voltage. I suggest you only fly with a fully charged pack anyway as 'good practice'

Let us know how you get on.

Regards

Fergus

Regards

Fergus
06-13-2008 12:06 PM
 
 
daytonabeach
Key Veteran
Location: Oslo, Norway

Ok, a little update here...
Followed the "Mike" instructions, but after pushing the button for about 2 secs in the the motor off mode, all the leds go black, tried to reset, tried rx battery before power batteries and the other way, tried with brake mode both on and off, still goes black at that point..

And the very nice guy in germany which promised me on the phone Wednesday to get back to me yesterday morning, hasnt replied yet, and now they have gone home for the weekend, VERY IMPRESSIVE for a big company like KONTRONIC

Dont know about much more different ways to do this now, guess ill have to waste another weekend waiting for them to get back in office monday...

Never argue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience...
06-13-2008 01:17 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
daytonabeach
Key Veteran
Location: Oslo, Norway

Well well well, Houston, we have some progres here

Finally i found the problem, the cable from rx to program card had only red and black wire, so i missed the lead signal (white)
Changed my 14mz setup file to "experiment file" made a linear curve, 0-25-50-75-100, 0-100% did as described, went through the whole setup procedure incl brake sett poss, (yea i have it on OFF now)

Changed back to the usual 14mz setupfile, spooled up, voila!

Havent fine tuned it yet, but it seems like im going to get pretty close to the old curve i had on the 55 jazz..


Wow, now i feel like a god dam professor in R(adio communication technology advanced hight tech ****) C(ontroled anger)

Thanks everyone for putting up with me...

I know there are more new hidden issues waiting to be solved in the nearest future *knock knock*

Never argue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience...
06-13-2008 08:02 PM
HOMEPAGE  
 
 
fergus
Veteran
Location: Ireland

Well done Chris

Now go get some flying done

If you purchased a wattmeter I would love if you could check your amp draw for a similar flying weight to what you had up when the 55-10-32 gave you trouble. Just for curiosity

Regards

Fergus

PS Maybe also post your program card settings so others can compare for future reference. It might save someone else some headaches.

Regards

Fergus
06-13-2008 08:09 PM
 
 
ehx
Senior Heliman
Location: Northern Minnesota

I just typed a long detailed message and when I hit Preview it disappeared ... I hate that, but it sounds like you found the problem so at least I don't have to retype it.
06-13-2008 08:15 PM
 
 
daytonabeach
Key Veteran
Location: Oslo, Norway

Thx Ferg!

Il have to resolder the ampmeter as well now, due to the big fat esc cables, but ill promise i will check the consumption later...

I will soon also invest in a complete Eagletree system incl the new OSD system so i can monitor everything live on the ground monitor
Then i can push things to the limit and see how it handles everything...

Yes indeed, i hope this thread can help others solving similar problems, since the manufacturer arent able to do that themselves

Might as well paste this in here:

1. Connect the Power Jazz to the ProgrCARD
2. Connect the ProgrCARD to the correct channel in the receiver
3. connect the receiver battery to the receiver
4. connect the main battery to the controller

Settings should be


Brake off

Battery Type (what you use)

Battery empty Cut OFF!

Cut off at (like you want)

Start Up doesnt matter, it's not active with activated rpm control

Timing Auto

RPM control ON

Start Up time 12s

Stick positions fixed

Set motor off position

- Move your slider, stick or switch to the motor off position.

Push the button for about 2 secs

Set Full gas position

- Move your slider, stick or switch to the motor full gas position.

Push the button for about 2 secs

Just push through the the Brake mode (airplane only, otherwise your blades will fold) also 2 secs, then when "reset" led lit up, its programmed

Here is how my program setup card looks like:




One step closer to success now

Never argue with an idiot, he'll drag you down to his level and beat you with experience...
06-13-2008 08:52 PM
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nooobs
Key Veteran
Location: Toronto, Canada

Excellent job Chris. Glad you got it workin'!

Seeeee... it wasn't a dumb question after all. Now you're da man! Thank you for sharing your findings.
06-13-2008 11:03 PM
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