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JR Heli Vibe - Airskipper - Sylphide - Venture > sylphide 90 as MA replacement?
 
 
Stolla
Senior Heliman
Location: Port elizabeth South Africa

I'm changin brands from MA to JR due to QC and local backup issues.
I would appreciate non-biased opinions to how the sylphide 90 compares with the MA fai tempest head heli's. I have two stratus heli's one with fai head other std. As local backup is very good on JR, Quality of parts and fit and obviously performance is of paramount importance to me. As anyone who has flown the fai stratus will acknowledge the performance is outstanding and I'm looking for similar or better performance. I'm not into serious 3d.
What about the vibe 90, how does that compare to the sylphide, I also notice the sylphide has a tail belt Is this worse than the drive tube?
From what I've seen so far on my vibe 50 I am heading in the right direction.
06-07-2008 12:22 PM
 
 
Dynamite
Senior Heliman
Location: Odessa

I have no experience with MA helis but I own both Vibe 90 and Sylphide 90 . Quality of the parts on both JR Vibe and JR Sylphide is unbelievable . If you order one of them you will understand what I am trying to tell.
Sylphide has a belt tail drive and this is better since the belt runs more quiet than torque tube .And also there is a nice looking body that is available for JR Sylphide (Super Gracy) .
When it comes to Vibe 90 ; You can do 3D and FAI type of flying with JR Vibe where you cannot do any 3D on JR Sylphide 90 (its a FAI only machine) .
If you have the money buy both of them . You won't be disappointed .

JR Vibe 90 , Sylphide 90 C , JR Vibe 50 , JR AS 50 , T-rex SE V2 , Raptor 50 Titan
06-08-2008 10:05 PM
 
 
Spacey
Senior Heliman
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

Stolla,

Alot of guys are flying the MA machines in competition up here in Gauteng and they do very well indeed. Personally I thought some of the MA machines hover really well but their not amazing upstairs, the Sylphide is great all round and in fairly stock setup like the C-model comes out the box only changing the mixing arms on the seesaw to the K&S ones everyone uses can make the Sylphide one of if not the best hovering machine out there. Our jaws were oozing droole when we first saw Ito hover at the worlds last year during practise, it just sits there...no other way to describe it. And no he didn't have some magical bits on the rotorhead, we spied on him for quite a while working on finding the setup he wanted to use during the competition..he went back to pretty stock unless we missed something.

I'm not going to try and take anything away from the MA machines, I have alot of respect for them but I just wouldn't choose one myself. The quality of MA compared to JR is very similar and I don't think either is better than the other. Backup in ZA like you said however might be another story, so would spares prices. If JR for some strange reason stopped making helis one day I always say I'm switching to Kyosho. MA is not on the list for me. If Kyosho fails me I'm going to Compass.

Now the Vibe? You can't go wrong there either but stay open minded (You should regardless which model you choose though). The Vibe is a little more tricky to get it to hover really well but it does have all the right stuff upstairs except the forward speed of the Sylphides. It's a much lighter machine however which certainly plays advantage all the way, you might just want to modify it into a Sylphide canopy or Super Gracy to get it going. The Vibe like mentioned will also be a little harder to get it to pass the noise test, Curtiss had to spend some time getting this right even on the electrics he used. This not a major problem however as Vibes even in stock form competed at the worlds last year, and they competed very well.

Regarding the belt on the Sylphide, don't worry it works and works really really well!

In closing, you could consider me being biased yes. I am a JR guy and will always be, but it's not because I recieve a paycheck. It's because the machines don't dissapoint.
06-09-2008 08:54 AM
 
 
Stolla
Senior Heliman
Location: Port elizabeth South Africa

Thanks for all the info, I would probably end up with both eventually but for now I'm looking for something that will give me max enjoyment as far as quality and flyability is concerned. Even though the fai stratus espescially with my own modified 4str saito 125 gives me this ultimate thrill I can not live with the situation as far as local support goes.
Will the sylphide do anything the stratus fai can?
06-09-2008 09:09 AM
 
 
Spacey
Senior Heliman
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

Quote 
I'm looking for something that will give me max enjoyment as far as quality and flyability is concerned.

Yes the Sylphide will do that. Personally it's one of the very few machines I will fly in a full fuselage due to the low maintanance needed on it. And yes it's the rolce royce of JR helicopters, like a pattern ship with some spice. It will 3D also with the right setup but the weight of the heli does go against it so no hard stick banging stuff like the Vibe .90/50.

Quote 
Will the sylphide do anything the stratus fai can?

Not sure what you mean by this? From what I've seen though in an enviroment where both machines are made to perform their best. I think the Sylphide kicks the stratus's behind.
06-09-2008 09:30 AM
 
 
Stolla
Senior Heliman
Location: Port elizabeth South Africa

I took the plunge and ordered a sylphide C with super gracy fuse
Servo's 8305's, 770 gy, ar9000 with 2 satelite receivers, 8Aregulator w/2 2200 mah lipo's, os91szh, K&S muffler
CY 710's(will this work, i see everyone using smaller)

So now I am officially a JR supporter although the MA's will stay......for now

Common sense may not be common after all
06-11-2008 07:37 AM
 
 
Spacey
Senior Heliman
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

Hi Stolla,

700mm Max on the mains while running 95mm tails. If you go to 105mm tails 680mm mains, maybe 690. You can probably run 710's on the stock rotorhead if you are really carefull on the elevator inputs but I wouldn't recommend it, and yes your motor is going to work hard to make that big disc go round and round.

You should shop for some K&S 680 Spec-S FRP blades perhaps. Or the 700's but the new versions. The new fiberglass Spec-S blades do look really nice, my buddy is on them now on his competition models.

Another blade which some say fly really nice are the Rotortech 690 stuff, not sure if they make a specifically FAI/F3C blade in these but ya check it out.

Btw, another servo you should check out really is the 8915's. But ok then your 8A reg might be pushing it.

Anyways welcome to the matrix I suppose? Now you're gonna have a hard time saying anything other than JR all day long. LOL

Let me know if you need any help.
Cheers,
Rudolf du Toit
06-11-2008 08:02 AM
 
 
Raffy
Key Veteran
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Quote 
Even though the fai stratus espescially with my own modified 4str saito 125 gives me this ultimate thrill I can not live with the situation as far as local support goes.

Wow! Whatever!!!!!!!!!
06-11-2008 08:27 AM
 
 
Spacey
Senior Heliman
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

Quote 
Wow! Whatever!!!!!!!!!

Uhmm...ok thank you for that extremely valuable input there. Very informative.
06-11-2008 08:40 AM
 
 
Raffy
Key Veteran
Location: Chicago, Illinois

Duh! what input is there to that?

Quote 
my own modified 4str saito 125

You think I believe that??????????
06-11-2008 09:59 AM
 
 
Spacey
Senior Heliman
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

I fail to see what's so hard to believe about that? We do it all the time and see alot of other folks doing constantly. Especially when it comes to mounting 4-strokes in inherently 2-stroke designed helicopters. Now I'm not even talking about modifying the motors to optimise performance, it's not a new thing and done all the time.
06-11-2008 10:07 AM
 
 
Raffy
Key Veteran
Location: Chicago, Illinois

I have to take another look at the size of that 4 stroke Saito 125 and see if I can fit one in my Stratus!

"Optimize performance" - I see.
06-11-2008 10:11 AM
 
 
Stolla
Senior Heliman
Location: Port elizabeth South Africa

http://runryder.com/helicopter/t416132p1/
There is a photo of the conversion there. I'm running 1700 headspeed at the moment and although it will not match the 2 str outright I can tell you there is no bogging and with the fai head it flies supreme!
When I get time I will download some video.
With the right gear ratios you will easily get 1850 to 1900 but the higher torque compensates to a greatextent for the lack in rpm therefore i don't feel the need. However for you crazy 3d whizz's out there it'll most probably have to run different gear ratio's
I did the mod because i love 4 strokes not for the performance but i have to say everyone who has seen it so far was blown away with the unexpected performance. Also I will probably get close on 20 minutes on a tank of fuel!

Common sense may not be common after all
06-11-2008 02:21 PM
 
 
Spacey
Senior Heliman
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

Hi Stolla,

If I can just add, you are really not getting anywhere near the experience of that machine running 1700RPM? I have real life experience in this and even though you can still extract the same punch by loading on more pitch making the heli be powerfull and all there is a catch. Your machine just won't be as predictable in fast forward flight as others getting the headspeed up there. On the Sylphides when you drop under 1900RPM you might see some things become a little funny upstairs, not that the heli gets a mind of its own but it's nowhere near as locked in as getting the headspeed in the 2000~2100RPM range where most guys run it.

Just as a sidenote. If four strokers are your thing then by all means, but maybe give a good old OS .91SZ a go sometime on that Stratus. I see you got a K&S muffler for the Sylphide so I'm assuming you're going 2-stroke, please don't get two mufflers! The C-model afaik has a muffler included, not sure myself anymore which muffler it is if it's the Tornado or the new F3C mufflers we're using but ok.
06-11-2008 03:35 PM
 
 
Chris.C
Senior Heliman
Location: Hong Kong

The C model comes with a stainless steel muffler by Zimmermann, the K&S version called Tornado.

Both of my Sylphide are using them for over 4 years with OS.

I saw your post that you are going to use 2.4 receiver with Gracy fuse. I am thinking about this one too but have concern. Since the upper and lower of the canopy is made of carbon fibre, I am not sure if the receiver could work properly if it is sitting inside.

Chris
06-12-2008 02:40 AM
 
 
Stolla
Senior Heliman
Location: Port elizabeth South Africa

Spacey, are you running that high headspeed for fai? I thought 1950 is in the ballpark.
unfortunately I can't get gear ratio's for the higher headspeed from MA, If you know any other gearing that will work please let me know, even if I may not run it much higher it will be good for the motor. I must say with the fai head on it's solid as a rock upstairs
Maybe the 720 blades help?

Re the os 91szh, I have one in my second stratus, it's still waiting for the multigov(arriving from aerospire today!)this one has the std head.
It has not been run in yet but will be soon!

K&S is included in the kit

Chris, I will do the tests and let you know, so far so good with my MA heli's both on 2.4 and lots of carbon although not shielded as with a fuse, this is why I will install 2 extra receivers.
For the record Chris what headspeeds ar you running?

Common sense may not be common after all
06-12-2008 06:25 AM
 
 
Chris.C
Senior Heliman
Location: Hong Kong

Stolla,

Proceed with great caution on the 2.4 with Gracy fuse. Sylphide in pod-n-boom form should not be a problem. We did this with Futaba 2.4 or JR 2.4, so far so good. Only with Gracy fuse we have a question mark.

For the head speed upstair, it is very important that the engine has enough torque to maintain constant head speed during demanding manuvers. 1950 or 2000+ is fine and up to your choice. Mine running at around 1950 to 2000 with OS Cspec, 25% nitro, Zimmermann muffler, 690mm semi-symmetrical carbon blades by Funkey. This blades has a little wash-out built in.

BTW, the C model already comes with 7.8:1 gear ratio so you need to put a healthy engine with good torque. I tried SZ with it before with brutal power but seems a little bit more vibration so I switch back to C-spec. I added extra shim to both engines.

Cheers,

Chris
06-12-2008 06:50 AM
 
 
Spacey
Senior Heliman
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

Hi Stolla,

Yes we do run that high a headspeed, as high as possible. If you can get it to lock in at 2100RPM while punching out well you run it that way. The heli is much much more predictable upstairs and obviously faster in FF...although there is some other factors at play here also. Personally my setup at the moment was running 2060 hover loads and dropping back to around 1930 under full load, you don't see full load all that much though and the higher 2060RPM helps alot for rolls and the motor can maintain it. I have since switched rotorheads however and trying some new things. A well built Sylphide is good for 2200RPM+ on the rotorhead, don't ask me how we know this though...lol, not recommended!

The K&S Tornado pipe ain't half bad. Very use friendly muffler and nice and quiet, smoothe. The new K&S F3C muffler wooops it 6 love though. The Tornado doesn't make gobs of power.

On the 2.4 issue, Scott Gray amongst others last year at the world were running them just fine in the Super Gracy? Maybe if you can put two sattelite recievers in with the longer extensions and mount them at the back of the pod away from the two windows in the front of the fuse. I have to add also the carbon used on the gracy's are very thin in the window areas. I don't think it will be a big issue, just range check properly.
06-12-2008 09:27 AM
 
 
Stolla
Senior Heliman
Location: Port elizabeth South Africa

Got my Sylphide the weekend, am I impressed! gee wizz now I know what you guys raved about.
I also started the build on my vibe 50 and so far it was a real nice experience, actually the quality control and support issues i had with my MA stratus heli's made me forgot we are doing this for the fun!'
From the packaging to the manual, quality and fit of parts and obviously design the vibe is imo a better package. I was surprised to see it has a metal washout compared to flimsy plastic on the stratus.
You can not compare the sylphide to stratus fai, it's night and day but suppose so is the cost.
So my dissapointment with MA is now something of the past, I now have a brand that I can really enjoy from the word go.
Thanks for helping me make the right choice here.

Common sense may not be common after all
06-16-2008 05:12 PM
 
 
Spacey
Senior Heliman
Location: Pretoria, South Africa

Hey Stolla,

Glad you like it. You're going to have a long good relationship with that machine I'm sure. Let me know if I can help any, on the Vibe or the Sylphide.
06-17-2008 08:34 AM
 
 
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